Obama is not a real Christian...

Started May 10, 2012 | Discussions thread
Marty4650
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As usual, you missed my point
In reply to JulesJ, May 14, 2012

JulesJ wrote:

Marty. You are either blinded by your own views or are a fool. Believe it or not, the majority is not always right and often is not. You seem to think that any views or wishes by gay people are wrong because they are a minority. of they are a minority, that's the point. It's not just about what the majority need, it's about what minorities need as well, and they will always have a more difficult time getting what they need by definition. This is where democracy as you know it falls down.

In an entirely separate post I question whether civil rights should be determined by popular vote. So I am not advocating this, simply saying that this is the position that the gay rights advocates are taking by CITING POLLS as their basis for demanding new rights.

In response, Chato wrote that he believes that "an overwhelming majority" must determine what civil rights are. And while this would make more sense, even this may be onerous. An "overwhelming majority" of the German population in 1938 felt that Jews did not have the right to live. An "overwhelming majority" of the people in the American south felt that slavery should be legal in 1860.

Since human beings are prone to self interest, bias, and discrimination towards others, you simply cannot trust this decision to popular votes.

So how do we determine what civil rights are?

Tough question.

  • Most people will say "whatever I want them to be" then argue about it forever.

  • Others (like Chato) will say "whatever a vast majority of people say they should be."

  • Others might say civil rights should be determined by popular elections.

  • Still others will say "whatever major religions say they should be."

The whole point here is that I feel that there is no civil right to change definitions of words. The rights these people seek are the rights to have the legal status of next of kin. The right to inherit. The right of joint ownership. The right to be included.

And all of these rights can be conveyed without changing the definition of marriage for everyone else. It is precisely here where the gay rights advocates are attempting to force their will on everyone else, and this is why they still haven't secured this right.

If they would settle for "civil unions" they would have nothing to gripe about.

But this isn't good enough for them. They demand that everyone else regard marriage in a new way. A union between two individuals, that has nothing to do with gender.

They certainly have a right to hold this view.
But they have no right to impose it on others.

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