A week plus with the SD1 (long.....very long)

Started Jul 7, 2011 | Discussions thread
NarrBL
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,714
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Re: I believe this image is actually much better
In reply to Erik Magnuson, Jul 9, 2011

Ok, Erik. I arrive where I can spend a few more minutes on this, before having to leave again.

  • browser color management. That's a good page, and my c-m browsers check out fine - Firefox 5.0 and Safari 5.0.5. Actually the problem is with Pbase - for any but original size, it clips the profile. Another reason (as your page emphasizes) that images as a practical matter need to be converted to sRGB for any web-browser-intended use. At original size, on these color management-capable browsers, the three example images look reasonably the same, and pretty much as Photoshop shows them. Just not on IE, Chrome, etc. of course.

  • mold vs. noise. You sound pretty abrupt on all this, and I am not interested in that form of back and forth, but let me answer what I see anyway. Actually, again, color tinting doesn't show until one has artificially raised the saturation to the point where the whole image is beginning to bloom colors.

And guess what: these color patterns do not match the lumpy spots of what I am still thinking is cold wet climate outdoor molds. Having grown up with them on my own house, etc.. The color blotches are much larger in dimension, and tend to be whole patches according to greyscale intensity value: following for example the angles of gable-underside at many parts of the house. They are often rectangular, and then with sparkles of red often as pure noise hits against the tint. I would suspect the tint is not noise either, but actually response of blotch-removal, at a first guess.

If you hit just the point of over-saturation that you used in your example, yes, it can be made to look like older-camera 'wormy' noise. But then run your saturation up and down and see that where there should be mold, there is. Where there should be less or no mold, you don't see that pattern.

Where you should: where lowest to plant-heavy, spore-rich ground (and perhaps north-side) entrance gable, then there are the blotches. Which can also be bad paint, as there are plenty of damp-climate blisters or opened blisters on the house.

When you are higher, essentially no blotches (though there are some blisters) until you have the saturation high enough to flouresce much of the image with red and green-yellow large patches. Those areas never have the same look as the presumed-mold areas.

Lots of words, I know. But I am pretty sure you will find the same thing if you are a bit quiet and careful.

  • now, what is this about SD1 assumed to be perfect under extreme abuse of its images? I am going to be gentle here, out of normal sense for things, and because again I see no use in the bitter controversy pattern for the forum.

Erik, you of all people have some sense of the physics at the root of this and other sensors. That physics says that all things being equal, smaller pixels will have more individual noise. Not-equal might be what I think I understand about the device behind the new Canon patent, but let's see about that. With present smaller pixels, firmware or software image processing becomes more important, significantly, and better results depend on its sophistication at really using all masking properties of human senses as well as whatever the display medium, monitor or printing, provide.

In other words, again as you well know, there is not Platonic perfection in any digital photography; yet both Bayer and Foveon are tending gradually to look a little better, still using the basic physical formation of their respective sensors. And you can make either look bad, a little more readily, because they are using best understanding of human perception and material response to get you that best if you don't abuse this. Ensemble with appropriate processing is what gets us something better than the individual pixels might suggest.

And I have to go. See what you think of this so far, and I'll be back later or tomorrow.

Regards, Erik,
Clive

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