Review: Nokia 808 PureView: Digital Photography Review

Why Dpreview (and/or Nokia) uses "oversampling" when the process of using a lower spacial sampling frequency (from 38MP down to 8/5/3 MP) actually is downsampling ?!
Oversampling is just the opposite : converting a low-resolution picture to a higher resolution one (which does not increase sharpness, of course), as it is the case on digital audio devices when the digital audio signal is oversampled from, let's say 44.1 khz to 192 khz or higher to allow the use of higher-quality digital low-pass filters rather than analog filters.
Did Nokia marketing guys think "downsampling" was to negative ?

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

"Oversampling is just the opposite : converting a low-resolution picture to a higher resolution one"

That would be "upscaling".

0 upvotes

It is oversampling; When producing low-res images, they are sampling at a significantly higher frequency than the output, which is the definition of oversampling. In digital audio it's just the same - oversampling delta-sigma converters typically run at ~2MHz with a 1-bit ADC internally, but output sample rates much lower than that. What you described is upsampling - converting to a higher rate than the original source - which has very few benefits.
I think you're looking at it from the wrong direction: because they are oversampling to start with, they are able to downsample and gain improved anti-aliasing and signal-to-noise when producing lower-resolution images.

0 upvotes

Good start for new tendention, IMHO!

0 upvotes

I don't think it is fair to compare this to a digital camera. This is a device which is really, really portable, and it can easily take very decent pictures.
Your digital camera can be used only when you go out specifically to take pictures; otherwise it can be left home.
It is a good product. It starts a new trend. Others will follow. Now camera makers should stop trying to shrink digital cameras and making them without viewfinder.

2 upvotes

I wonder what if they have chosen to use reasonable pixel count with the sensor that large and maybe a bit better optics, I guess we would have cheaper device with better picture quality, and then I would have considered buying it despite outdated Symbian OS

1 upvote

Exactly what I've been wondering. Imagine if they'd used the back lit sensor techno;ogy and large pixels for actual sensitivity,rather than pixel binning. I don't get it. Large numbers of pixels are a pain in almost every respect (except for those that require a substitue what'sit, but there are big cars for them). It must be relatively expensive to make sensors with such numbers. The sensor can't be that tied in with the OS can it? While it might take better shots than other phones, the trade-offs seem too high. Might as well just pocket an S100. Who gives a rodent's about in device processing?
I was quite tempted to try one. Maybe once I get another iPad, I can ditch the iPhone for something like this.Shame about the dissapointing level of improvements on the new iPhone camera though.
My limited photographic skill means I can't get past the snapshot feel of these high DOF devices, so they can't replace DSLR's at least for me.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

"What it can't do, of course, is provide one of the other benefits of zoom in a conventional optical system - background blur. Even on a cheap small-sensor compact, you can achieve a degree of subject and background separation by zooming in, and reducing depth of field. Not so with the 808."

Actually, as you "zoom in" (crop), you essentially increase the size of the every element of the central portion of the picture, including the size of the OOF circles. 3.8x at 3MP is not much, and f/2.4 on 1/1.2" sensor is not much to begin with, but I am sure you can detect the blur if you have some to begin with. Now, the lack of aperture priority (or at least program shift) means it is hard to actually open the aperture in good light...

0 upvotes

How can you "open the aperture" when it only has one?

Light seems to be controlled by built in ND filters instead of a variable aperture.

0 upvotes

CFynn, where did you get this?

0 upvotes

Looks like at 8MP there is a room for useful ISO 3200. I guess that means that at 3MP there is a room for ISO 6400.

0 upvotes

Thanks for this "review." Now, how about a serious technical review?
RUcrAZ

0 upvotes

I am using this phone about two weeks now and i am very satisfied. No more carrying cameras with bags, all you need is your pocket. And pictures quality is great, vivid colors are fantastic. And good video quality also. So its three devices in one for me. Thanks to Nokia easying my life.

0 upvotes

The IQ is amazing for a smartphone but because of Symbian better wait for the Windows version. Probably the Lumia 808 ?
Or rather I'dd like to see Canon squeeze a phone into the SD4000IS/IXUS1100 lol
Anyway, people will mostly use these pictures to post them on the net so the IQ is more than sufficient.

0 upvotes

So far, Windows Mobile 7.5 is pretty far behind Symbian.

1 upvote

I'm not impressed either ... IQ is comparable to cheap P&S with added communication capabilities. That's it. However good attempt.

1 upvote

Sensor fell well behind m4/3 (E-M5) and larger at ISO 400 and up. Please add RX100 to the comparison tool.

3 upvotes

"Excellent image quality considering the type of device that it is." And that's the problem with this review. Is this a gold award camera or a gold award camera phone? Looking at the weak color, the fixed 28mm focal length, and the long list of "cons" I think it's clearly the latter. If you're cutting it slack for the type of device it is, then you should also judge how well it works for its other intended functions. This is really a review of a particular camera phone technology. And the tech is clever and potentially interesting - in a decent phone.

0 upvotes

Impressive. Too bad Elop killed such a great company.

1 upvote

Sounds interesting but I don't think Sprint here in the US would agree to allow us to use phones that are not available through them or I would have purchased a phone I like on the market and not what they sell.

0 upvotes

A fun review but unfortunately a bit breathless and hyped. The ability to use cropping to zoom is useful but the real issue isn't the pixel count, it's the sensor size. And we have yet to see whether the sensor is as good as the reviewer says.

The reviewer seems to want to believe that the Nokia has an IQ that's as good or better than a point and shoot. And on occasion he even suggests the camera is as good as an entry level DSLR.

But if you're going to make big claims, back it up. Show how the IQ stacks up against the G12 or a Rebel in low light -- use the standard DP Review test suite! The reviewer doesn't take that step and his "review" is not up to the usual level of this site as a result.

I'm glad Nokia chose to push the envelop and when they give the phone a more usable operating system, it will be worth a look. But the most exciting aspect of this story is that it raises the bar for the other smartphone manufacturers.

2 upvotes

"But if you're going to make big claims, back it up. Show how the IQ stacks up against the G12 or a Rebel in low light -- use the standard DP Review test suite!"
Go to that test suite and see yourselve how Nokia blow up G12. And this is best image they can produce . If you want go to different conditions - lowlight - my 50$ 15y old Sony nightshot cam can outperform every DSLR here . That is other issue. Question is which camera have better max quality in light , and 808 beat 99% !

5 upvotes

What is mssing for you?
Look at the picture comparison tool.

4 upvotes

I stand corrected. Generally the DP reviews integrate the picture comparison tool right into the review. Here there was a link that opened a new page and I missed that link.

I would disagree with resuyaber though. I don't think the image quality (as opposed to the # of pixels) was any better than that of the G12 or other comparable point and shoots, and at 1600 ISO the Nokia was clearly worse.

And of course with a real camera you have a lens that can zoom in instead of cropping it's image with a digital zoom. So compare a G12 zoomed in to its 5x max with the Nokia for a true comparison.

As I said, this camera is raising the bar on what a camera phone can do but let's not pretend it's equivalent to a better P&S.

Comment edited 57 seconds after posting

1 upvote

I´m not impressed at all. This phone needs such a large sensor to produce pictures at the level of an 150 € point and shoot? Give me a break. 38MP looks just soft and without any real detail. And even 8MP is far from impressive. Like said on level of an cheap P&S - and these come nowadays mostly with OIS and zoom. In a similar size. And regarding video, I know cheap pocket camcorders that can do better. No hard feelings, but DPreviews statement about "excellent video quality" is just false. Even their own samples prove it. DPreview is no videocamera site which is ok as they are mainly about photography but then they shouldn´t make such statements.
So then finally a Gold Award for this phone - it is far from deserving this. Especially for this price.

1 upvote

Dude.....read your second sentence again...
This PHONE produces images as good as a decent P&S. Enough said.

This is a HUGE advancement because it means that many people don't need to bother with a P&S...all they need is their phone. This is a big deal.

Sure, the quality may not be good enough for yours or my P&S needs, but it will be more than good enough for millions of others who buy this Nokia.

9 upvotes

Clint Dunn, dude, you should also read my sentence again. I wrote about a large sensor...but most cheaper P&S have sensors sized at around 1/2,3". And a lot of them produce better images...the 808-images aren´t really "decent".
Yeah, a lot of people want to take pics with their phone with acceptable quality, but this was also possible before the 808 was launched. The stills and videos from the iPhone 4S look better - and I´m surely not an Apple fan. So I don´t see a reason to rave about the 808.
BTW: The other difference between this and a 150 € P&S are around 500 €...money that can buy one a good smartphone if needed and there will be some money left for a good lunch LOL.

0 upvotes

Lupti, does the iPhone offer zoom without affecting resolution? Do you know of any phones that can take photos like a cheap P&S, and with the ability to zoom without "digital zoom", which reduces pixel count rather than downsample from a larger image?

I had the iPhone 4S, and I currently have a nice Galaxy phone. The image quality of both are good enough for most people, but the intent of this camera was to offer the ability to zoom without reducing MP.

Also, the larger sensor will mean better a greater ability to produce OOF backgrounds.

0 upvotes

what makes the phone special is its image quality not its sensor size. you should ignore the sensor size, then you'll be able to appreciate this phone for what it is.

1 upvote

"being one of the most important innovations - arguable the most important - in mobile photography since the smarphone era dawned five or so years ago"

I'll argue that point. This technology has the *potential* of changing the way that camera phones are made but this phone itself will probably not penetrate any market very far. Will other phone makers (or camera makers) emulate this technique? That's questionable. Nor do we know how far Nokia is willing to go with this in future models. In a few years we may look back at this as being important, or in retrospect it may end up being what it is right now -- an interesting curiosity.

0 upvotes

It's an important innovation in the sense that it's shifted our expectations of what is possible in a product of this type. Whether it ends up being a commercial success is immaterial.

9 upvotes

I guess my objection was to the use of the word "important"; we're dealing only with potential (your word: 'expectations') here. This could easily become a dead end.

In a sense though we've already seen renewed interest in the last two years among cameramakers in digital zoom technologies and actually producing useful output from them. A few years ago, 'digital zoom' was almost regarded as a dirty word, but now it seems like these features are here to stay. Nokia's technology is a relatively extreme application of these approaches.

0 upvotes

since he's only limiting the context to mobile phone photography, i think it's still at least reasonable to claim this is the most important development so far. although i would argue the most important development in mobile phone photography has been apps like hipstamatic and instagram, and maybe even the iphone 4s camera, since people actually own it.

0 upvotes

Unique Nokia Map features:

Nokia has Nokia Maps (last version 3.09). It lets you download to the Phone Maps from any number of countries and navigate OFFLINE.

The phone will also show ALL your Pictures on the MAP, a very very nice feature if you ask me!

This is NOT found on other phones as far as I can tell: Last time I tried my HTC (with Android) I had to be online all the time: Expenses forbids this, especaially abroad...

2 upvotes

Take a look at this it's full resolution. Pretty impressive say I. Such a small lens, and it CAN really resolve that many pixels! http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/photos/2118322/2012-07-07-0211?inalbum=nokia-808-pureview-review-samples

0 upvotes

Its Zeiss, not just "name" on lens, but real Zeiss.

At full size and 100% it looks like point-n-shoot, but.. its 38 mpix. Really good results not just for camera phone, but it beats almost every point-n-shoot aswell.

3 upvotes

no alarms and no surprises...
...in this review.

0 upvotes

so from what I can tell everything is captured at full rez then 'cropped' since the number of pixels is reduced with each larger pixel output size. Am I reading that right?

This kind of reminds me of the digital zoom on my Fuji s100fs but it doesn't 'crop' as such and delivers full rez 11mp images even when digitally zoomed. No doubt these guys will master that soon too.

0 upvotes

No. It is only cropped for maximum zoom. Everything in between is oversampled - information from multiple pixels is combined to one (like downsampling from up to 41MPX to 8/5/3).

0 upvotes

Downsampling is not the same thing as cropping down. ;)

0 upvotes

Can such a small lens really resolve that many pixels? How about a full res shot of a sharpness test image, like in your lens reviews.

Comment edited 16 seconds after posting

2 upvotes

your eye has a very small lens.

0 upvotes

I'm sure Nokia 808 Pureview is a great phone but why 41mp? What program can open a 41mp image? The slightly larger cmos sensor (/1.2) is a great addition but adding more megapixels will not improve the quality of the image, only slow things down.

0 upvotes

'why 41MP?' is explained in the review, at various points.

12 upvotes

Bleh. Nokia should have just asked Sony to develop an 8MP BSI sensor of the same size. I bet it would have performed better.

1 upvote

or just use the Nikon 1/RX100 sensor.

All this dubious effort to create gold from 1.4 micron pixels certainly earned them headlines and fanfare, burned through their cash, with little else to show. Image quality is barely better than the N8's 1/1.8" 1.75 micron pixels. A one-off show with zero impact on the sorry state of their other cameraphones with or without Zeiss lens: garbage like any other brand's.

0 upvotes

I'm all for technology and I think that this little camera phone is a good achievement but I really can't say I am impressed by the images it produces.
The higher ISO images are not bad...they are terrible.
Low ISO shots are definitely acceptable...especially considering the amount of detail you can get with that many MP but the colors don't look very accurate and WB looks to be an issue in anything but bright sunlight.
I am just amazed that some are comparing detail against something like the D800. We need to get some perspective on exactly what this camera/phone can produce.

1 upvote

Some people can't tell the difference between the output of a camera phone and a D800. Visual discrimination isn't something one can order from Amazon.

1 upvote

keep in mind the high iso shot shown was also fully zoomed so it wasn't using any of the "pureview" features

0 upvotes

amazing how nokia and zeiss got to this. nokia did a job i never expected them (nokia) to do in the photography area. they (nokia) did not content themselves to compete in the phone market, but in the photo market. i mean, professional photo market.

man, to have a phone being compared to a d800 to give us an idea how good it can perform is... weird?, great!?, absurd?, annoying? right? disorientating?... to which one would they compare if the d800 were not launched then? haaa!

and zeiss, my gosh... german lens engineering at its best. what the heck of a resolutive lens! and give a look at their lens design. i just found this image of it (http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/images/features/808-lenses.jpg).

congrats nokia (and zeiss)! i'm amazed.

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting

4 upvotes

This is no doubt a great camera phone, but it's output is not even remotely close in quality to the output from a D800 or even a J1/V1 or for that matter a Canon s100.

1 upvote

yeah, i agree, but they needed a d800 to tell you that, right?

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Not true, it's 8MP output _at 28mm_ is the same or better as Nikon J1/V1 all the way to ISO 1600, definitely better than any P&S (including Fuji X10 and Canon G12), except Canon G1 X (and maybe Sony RX100, which is not in the comparison widget). Now, zoomed in is the different story.

1 upvote

Sick! I wondered how they managed to illuminate that large sensor! Thanks for the link...

0 upvotes

nokia has been in a position for a long time that necessitated a bold and creative move.

0 upvotes

When you can't do anything to raise the poor quality of your mainstream phone camera, you divert your resources to a marquee product where direct comparisons do not apply. That's what Nokia is doing here, avoiding the battle, to their peril. I don't expect PureView to do anything for the sorry state of affairs in Lumia or Asha phones.

Once WP8 brings Navteq offline maps to everyone, I expect even more people to see through Nokia's hypocrisy and try other brands.

0 upvotes

iPhone 5 comes out later this year. The 8MP camera now is impressive, but I am curious how the updated model will compare to this and other phone/cameras. Decent pictures, amazing apps (iPhone has lots), and ease of use. I doubt basic P&S cameras will last much longer.

0 upvotes

well the 4s still lacks compared to the nokia n8 cant imagine the 5 being any different considering the thinner form factor and identical camera lens size

4 upvotes

The problem with a review like this is that it focuses on the camera feature of a phone that is otherwise receiving pretty mediocre reviews. Just read Wired Magazine's article.

Then there's the cost. $650+ unlocked on Amazon.

0 upvotes

We are in the Canon Rebel (1st Gen) days of camera phone technology. Just gives Moore's Law a little time. It won't be long before the picture taking, data sending and application loading processes are beautifully streamlined into a <$250 device. It's inevitable.

0 upvotes

wired not only gave an illegible review it was filled with incorrect information if you want a review on a phone its best to go to a DPReview equivalent for phones like GSMArena etc

3 upvotes

I'd rather have a mediocre phone attached to a killer camera than what I have now... a mediocre phone attached to a junk camera.

0 upvotes

I have a kid with an N8 (he's had it for about a year). Took it to Europe on a skiing holiday and could hardly believe the video footage that this little "phone" produced. I've worked up some shots in PSE and they are excellent.

Once Nokia sort their operating system out (Now that Microsoft is in on the deal) Apple is dead !

3 upvotes

"Apple is dead !"

LOL!

3 upvotes

No hard feelings, but I had the N8 for a test and the video footage is far from "excellent". Rather muffled monaural sound, better disable stabilisation as it adds odd "jumping" to the video and average sharpness. So it seems you never have seen decent video footage froma P&S or cheap video-camera. Both will beat the N8 video performance easily. And so the 808 which also produces video footage that is far from "excellent".

0 upvotes

Lupti, you tested the wrong camera, the N8 has stereo mics, no stabilization, and video quality is excellent

1 upvote

lupti the n8 has stereo sound and the n8s video only dropped frames during a very very short period where there was a conflicting update a fix was almost immediately released...

but i do agree the n8s video isnt spectacular, its good, but its still are though

0 upvotes

I highly doubt that the N8 has stereo mics as it isn´t even mentioned on the Nokia site. And stereo or not, the sound isn´t the best. And yes, mine had an option to enable stabilisation for video - which added more shake to the video instead of removing it.
And stills were nothing special. Too much compression. Overall it is a mediocre smartphone.

0 upvotes

Lupti, that's a pretty firm view you have there given you disagree with the 2 million google search results for "nokia n8 stereo mic". Are you sure it was an n8? Maybe an n6?

1 upvote

@Lupti

Not sure if you know it or not but jpeg compression is adjustable on the N8. You can even shoot them at 100% if you like but it really slows down the camera hence the reason for 90% being the recommendation.

1 upvote

"Not only does it feature the highest-resolution sensor of any mobile phone camera, but at the time of writing, the 808 PureView features the highest-resolution sensor of any current camera outside of highly specialist (and very costly) medium format equipment"

Someone got a 3D or 1Ds X in office. :D

2 upvotes

Not that it's about the input resolution of the sensor (7728 x 5368 btw) but out of curiosity did you check the specs? :)

1 upvote

I am talking about DP having a 40+mp Canon in office. I read the cameraphone review.

0 upvotes

Any word on lens flare? I have an N8 and my biggest complaint is lens flare, its much worse than a normal compact camera. If the 808 fixes that I can't see anything to complain about.

0 upvotes

Flare performance on the 808 is imensely better than on the N8. I don't have a N8 to face against the 808 anymore, but the 808 is indeed much better.

0 upvotes

No mention of battery life?

1 upvote

Battery life is good by smartphone standards.

I get 3-4 days of light use from a single charge.

2 upvotes

The studio test sample shows a green cast at all iso's and at iso 1600 additionally a magenta cast at the right side.
What about this, is it no "con"?? Does anybody see it?

And regarding the "pro": "Excellent video quality (and sound)" - agreed for the quality of image and sound - but I am missing a good video stabilisation while moving (like sony's "active steadyshot")! Also the AF and zooming in video could be smoother.

I am willing to order a pureview (having a 5800 and being happy with symbian + nokia navigation) , but...see above...

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Green cast? Maybe Nokia are copying Nikon :-)

0 upvotes

It's nice to see someone developp such a successful proof of concept. And it's nice that DPR is savvy enough about the market evolution to recognize it's importance.

4 upvotes

Does anyone know the true dimensions (width x height) of this 1/1.2" sensor?

0 upvotes

10.67 mm x 8.00 mm according to the "Image sensor format" article on Wikipedia.

1 upvote

Nokia specifies pixel size as 1.4µm. The sensor is 7728 x 5368 pixels which makes it 10.82 x 7.52 mm^2.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

0 upvotes

Thanks Triggerhappy2 and falconeyes

0 upvotes

Amazing amount of detail captured, almost as much as D800!!

1 upvote

look at DPR's image comparsons... it exceeds the D800 and D800E on all images for low ISO 100 (which is to be expected as it has more Mp). only Pentax 645D exceeds it at ISO 100. Once it hits ISO 200, it gets noisier immediately even though it still has more details than the cleaner D800/D800E but still not the 645D. Once it hits ISO 400 it goes downhill for noise at 100%, at least under 'normal' light. If there is more light, such as outdoor, it will not fare as bad.

anything with more Mp SHOULD have more details, but not always. especially as one goes into darker scenarios or even into extreme dark scenarios where only hi-ISO helps (not just low ISOs). but in this case, any sensor that has a very high density of Mp per unit area is going to suffer with either too much noise or NR, both of which can obliterate details that would have resolved in better light at the lowest ISO.

given exposure metering is hard to control, it may lack ES-LV (exposure simulation). DPR didn't say.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

e.g.
there's cross-hatching on the globe in the Indian Ocean (around Seychelles Isles)... that is captured and only exceeded by the Pentax 645D, but not by either D800/D800E at ISO 100 (even ISO 200, although noisier)

at ISO 400... the D800/D800E may be 'clean'... but it also completely loses the detail that was in ISO 100.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

1 upvote

all is about pixel density. If you compare the size of the chip to the one of the D800, you can say that it is some 6 times smaller. So, a full frame had to have some 280 megapixels to equal this density. You had to make real big glass, take it far away from the sensor to equal this light concentration. That is the advantage of small sensors and high concentration lenses. It is easy to concentrate light on a small spot, and thus make high pix density on that spot, try yourself with a magnifying glass in the sun. But, if you have to cover a large surface it gets tricky. A FF will always fight with lens quality it needs for a good shot. On the other side, high pix density is a clue in low light and only usable at low ISO. So, is FF just a myth. A D800 performs a tiny bitty better as a NEX-7 with apsc format. No expert will ever see a difference in picture quality between the both, but on the bill you pay for a D800 and correct glass, you see it. Note that the NEX needs good glass too.

0 upvotes

For anybody wanting to compare to D800/E, I can only recommend a click to

http://falklumo.blogspot.de/2012/07/the-icamera-nokia-808-pureview-part-ii.html

And please, don't use DP Review for resolution comparisons. They don't control variables well enough and to compare resolution isn't their goal. Same goes for Imaging Resource btw.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

@falconeyes Thanks for that link!

0 upvotes

I do not understand this "over-focus" on what OS any device is running: If the device (PC. phone, whatever) does its job and runs the apps you need, who cares?

I am a programmer and develop farily advanced systems: The OS is NOT important, but the applications I can run on it is: They make up the system!

A tip on the 808 Blown Highlights: Manually turn on the ND filter in bright sunlight! It should turn om Automatically in Auto mode, but for 3-8 MPix res it does not seem to do this from tests I did yesterday. However, it does seem to work in full res 38 MPix mode. I will do more tests to try to verify this.

1 upvote

Problem is that there are only limited apps available to run on Symbian OS. Given that Symbian is dead now, Developers will not be investing in any new app development for symbian either so the OS is important

1 upvote

Hello,
As I said, if you can find the apps you need, there is no problem.

Even if Nokia stops development of Symbian, your phone will still work...

I have old PC's with the "dead" Win 3.1 & XP: Theys still work and are in use!

And, in 3 years time, you will, like 80% of the users, buy a new phone again....

So, what's the problem?

Seems like once one person screems "Wolf" everybody chimes in without thinking too much what they are screaming about?

6 upvotes

Just curious Brad, which are the programs are you missing that still need to be added?

Luckily there are already programs such as Shutter Pro, Camera Lover Pack and Camera Pro 808 that may continue to enhance the photography part of the Pureview 808.

3 upvotes

>The OS is NOT important,

Wrong! The OS is not important to YOU. To many other people the OS is very important. For example, I would never buy any product using Apples OS.

1 upvote

We are talking about a smartphone.

I don't want to have to bring another device just to read some excel file, take notes, have some dictionaries, play music and everything a smartphone should be able to do.

OS is paramount, hardware is paramount, phone functions are paramount (it's a smart*phone*, after all), camera comes maybe fourth.
If I have to bring with me two devices, they would be a smartphone and a camera, not two smartphones.

Comment edited 14 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

@Lensbringer you realize Symbian Belle has a fully functioning Microsoft Office Suite right? (free)
a butt load of dictionaries free... 808 etc plays music better than other phones due to its Dolby feature and its immensely loud loudspeaker

etc etc etc

Comment edited 33 seconds after posting

3 upvotes

@ LensBeginner

Word, Excel at al is all available for Symbian 3, but it is not an Android phone;
I have had an HT Android Phone: It did not make me any happier than the Nokia (with Symbian).

There are more programs available for Symbian than I can fit on the phone's memory...

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

@ seilerbird666

"The OS is not important to YOU"

No, it is not, and it is NOT important to > 80% of the users, because they don't have a clue about using the OS functions, just the APPS!

2 upvotes

PLEASE tell me that this will not be the new review layout! The "traditional" one you just used for the D3200 is ideal, do please keep it! Thank you...

1 upvote

would have liked a little more in-depth review and a mention of influencing the shutter speed up to 2.7seconds but this was nice I've noticed the highlight clipping in my use with the 808 but I had assumed it was my amateur hands/skills and not the camera

so then more bracketed images it is

1 upvote

I still would like to see compact camera with fast (1.4-2.3) short zoom lens built around this sensor. I also believe, that bigger body and (stronger) processor dedicated only for pictures would solve problems with "huge processing bandwidth required to quickly capture then blend multiple 41MP exposures to create an HDR image" and impact of high temperature on image quality (amp glow mentioned in the review).

0 upvotes

If I get the message, this is a very good "always-with-me" CAMERA, which holy smokin' pancakes- also has a phone included. Hmmm….now if it was also waterproof and heat proof, we could flip those pancakes...

2 upvotes

I'd like better to phone with my DSLR.

0 upvotes

Thank you for this review. I've been waiting for dpreview to make a proper test, and it's been well worth the wait. Pureview is so impressive I know it is highly likely to make me choose a WindowsPhone provided they can make it perform as well on that platform, and not limit the sensor to 20mp as has been suggested elsewhere.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Where have they suggested a 20mp limit? I read a lot about WP but you are the first one I se telling about this limit.

0 upvotes

I'd seen a reduced size sensor discussed for the WP follow on phones since the launch of the 808 as well. Basically the implication being that the 808 Symbian has very low cost components (single core processor, 512MB RAM, 640 screen etc.) outside of the very expensive camera system - and going to a Windows 8 phone will require much more expensive components (dual core processor, serious graphics processor, 1GB memory etc.) outside of the camera system and unless Nokia wants to be selling an insanely expensive phone they'll have to scale back the camera system (Nokia execs have made points to say PureView technology means oversampling and not the 41MP sensor for future phones).

We'll have to wait and see but I would be very surprised if the Windows version has this monster sensor in it because of costs, it should still be very nice of course.

1 upvote

@BrunoH. I wish I had time to find the reference, but I read so much about Pureview on WP I don't know where I read it.

0 upvotes

Congrats on finally reviewing a mobile phone camera. Now that they are taking place of P&S cameras, dpreview should test the ones with good photo capabilities.

3 upvotes

If this phone ran WP7 I would've been all over it...

1 upvote

It would be much worse device to begin with.

1 upvote

Its sad to see a great company like Nokia making such innovative products but adopting out of date OS and Windows........
Think of this device running on Android.....

3 upvotes

Technically Android is step back, like VHS to Betamax video recorder formats. Android needs more memory and processor power, needs more developer efforts, is less environment friendly, but addicted simple people prefers it, i.e. people prefers giving more money to billionaires losing their time on tapping and seeing Android phone ;) On other site, Windows Phone is still young but from very beginning optimized just for spending less time on effective usage. ;)

3 upvotes

Android is the buggiest piece of junk I've ever seen. I've owned two, but never again. If fact I'd resort to Apple before I'd go Android again, and I am not a fan of Apple.

6 upvotes

It's very clear you have never had a Samsung Galaxy S 2 (yes, i said 2 on purpose, even that has features the rest of the mobile phone world can only dream).
BTW: the addicted simpletons buy an iPhone...

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

2 upvotes

I have the new iPad and a phone with Android 4.0. Android keeps getting better, iOS is standing still and is simply antiqued junk in comparison!

0 upvotes

IMO it is too bad the next version of this won't have the OS of the N9.

1 upvote

Great review. I will definitely be getting a new Windows Phone 8 with Nokia Pureview built in as soon as it ships. Nokia will reveal their Autumn line up September 5th. cant wait...

One comment though. You wrote:

"In use, the 808 PureView behaves much like a conventional cameraphone, purely because of its form factor. If you're used to a phone like Apple's iPhone 4S, or any recent high-end Android offering, you won't have any difficulty adjusting to the 808.

A dedicated focus/shutter button on the left side of the phone acts as a shortcut to activate the camera app even when the phone is sleeping. A 'hard' press is required to open the app and wake the phone - a quick or light press will be ignored, preventing accidental operation of the camera."

I understand that a lot of you have not ever seen a Windows Phone, as a dedicated photo button like the one described above is mandatory on that platform. You should really take a hard long look at the upcoming Windows Phone 8 devices.

3 upvotes

I'm afraid you'll be a bit disappointed: as far as we know now, there will no Windows 8 equivalent of the 808. Nokia will use the PureView brand, but the WP8 PureView phones will be conventional cameraphones with conventional sensors and optics, so they will take pictures just like the other phones. Maybe they'll use good quality hardware (like in the N8), but with normal cameraphone sensors and LED flash, so nothing that could be compared with the 808. This is what has been rumored until now, but I guess we'll have to wait to see what they'll actually do. Anyway, it's a good move: they are spreading the PureView brand and building a good reputation, so when WP8 PureView phones will be out, the mass market will think that their quality is the same as the 808, and 99% of camerapohe users can't tell the difference.

0 upvotes

Although I hope there'll be a WP 8 Pureview in the lineup, I've seen elsewhere 2013 is more likely. I've also seen references to a max 20mp in WP. Furthermore, Nokia in all its statements refer to bringing "Pureview technology" to WP, which could mean that it's not THE Pureview as applied here, but rather aspects of it such as teh oversampling, some zoom, but less etc etc.

0 upvotes

@ Gadgety

Since the SDK for Windows Phone 8 leaked a week ago a lot of information has been revealed. But nowhere have I seen a 20mp limit. Can you give a reference to that info?

I don't care if the Lumia Pureview phone is not the exact 808 model. All I care is that it gives me the best picture quality possible. Lets se what Nokia have to show by September 5th...

0 upvotes

@BrunoH

It's to do with the SoC. Nokia have already stated that their first WP8 phones will run dual core processors. The GPU on theses SoC's has a limit of what sensor size it can address and dual cores SoC's are limited to 20mp sensors.

The new quad core SoC's overcome this limitation but none are certified for use by Microsoft as yet.

0 upvotes

Symbian made this phone pretty much outcasted. Not to mention MS's announcement of ' Current Window Phone won't do Win Phone 8 Metro " .. go figure - Don't think it worth the price its asking for anyway. There are better phone out there, and if I need a photographic platform there is better camera out there too. The one thing though, this technological progress shown, what would it be like to be implemented in otherwise other sensor in Cameras or Phones.

0 upvotes

I had an old Motorola candy bar phone with a Kodak 5M camera. I bought it knowing it would take better photos than any other phone at the time. I wish my current HTC incredible 8Mpx phone took photos half as good as my old phone did.

Great quality shots from your phone are a revelation! Wish I had the 808. Go Nokia!

1 upvote

Your Motozine did factually not take the best pictures at the time, the Nokia N82 not only took better pictures than the Zine but also had a more powerful Xenon flash, more precise Zeiss optics and a much larger sensor.

0 upvotes

Great review, wisely chosen words!
I've been using the 808 for 6 weeks and am happy with it, even Symbian is ok for my personal needs but of course it looks dated next to modern OS.
But this is just the beginning, there will certainly be Windows Phone flagship devices that will better the 808 is due time.
My only regret is that Nokia dumped Meego.

2 upvotes

About 50 people have left Nokia to start up their own company called Jolla to make and sell MeeGo smartphones. They have €10 million financing to build their first device and have already teamed up with China's largest phone retailer to sell it, so they have the money and the contacts. See what eventuates. So it's not just you wanting to see MeeGo operational:

http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=223307&f_src=lightreading_sitedefault

I'm wondering once they release it if it'll just be for their phones or if it can be ported to the 808. I doubt they can do their own smartphone with this sort of camera any time soon.

Then there's also the Linux Foundation's open-source Tizen meant to succeed MeeGo. That should work on the 808 eventually. Either way, I assume there'd have to be a specific 808 camera app written by someone for both MeeGo and Tizen.

https://meego.com

1 upvote

Yes shame about no Maemo/Meego with Pureview. It would have been a killer. Elop made his choice and now it's up to Nokia to focus its resources and make Pureview as impressive on the WP platform as it is on Symbian. If Nokia announces a 41mp Pureview WP in the fall lineup I will be SO impressed.

0 upvotes

I don't want to be too pessimistic but to make a successful OS these days that major developers support, that big companies make their apps for (like my bank, my newspaper and such) is almost impossible, certainly a couple of ex Nokia employees with 10 mill won't be able to do it. It'll be fine for nerds just like Maemo was, but it has no chance in the marketplace. Sadly.

1 upvote

Review: Nokia 808 PureView

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