ArticlesProduct Reviews & PreviewsReview: Nokia 808 PureView

Review: Nokia 808 PureView

By Barney Britton | Published Jul 30, 2012 | Product Reviews & Previews

Tagged with: camera mobile nokia nokia-808 pureview

Juha Alakarhu has been at Nokia since 2004, and currently holds the position of Head of Imaging technologies. We spoke to him recently near our Seattle offices about the 808 PureView.

A few weeks ago we had the opportunity to speak to Juha Alakarhu, head of imaging technologies at Nokia and someone who has been involved in the 808 PureView from its inception. As well as letting us get our grubby hands on his baby, he also let us ask some questions about the PureView technology that makes the 808 so interesting to photographers. Read our exclusive interview below.

What is wrong with current/competitive cameras on phones in your opinion?

Some of the key issues are related to low light performance or and unnatural looking images (due to heavy processing), lack of sharpness, lack of proper zoom, lack of proper flash, lack of proper audio quality in videos, or slow speed or clumsy use.

What are the benefits of the PureView technology?

The key benefits of the 808 PureView compared to conventional mobile phone cameras are:

Wonderful sharpness and very natural 'non-processed' look without noise filtering or sharpening artifacts.
Excellent noise and low light performance.
You can zoom without the maximum aperture or focus distances changing.
Blurred backgrounds when shooting closeup subjects.
Very fast operation - you can get straight into photo mode by pressing the camera button even if the phone is locked.
Very nice new user interface for zooming that we call 'slide zoom'.
A high-power xenon flash.
Full HD video with zoom, and advanced stereo audio recording.
Powerful photographic controls in 'Creative mode'.

All of those apply to both stills and video. The zooming interface is especially useful in video. Speaking about video, we should not forget the new audio technology that we have in the product: rich recording with very high quality stereo microphones that can handle up to 140dB sound pressure. We also have Dolby Digital Plus playback via HDMI, and Dolby headphone technology.

How long have you been developing this technology?

The idea of a super high-resolution camera squeezed to a phone was born five years ago in bar in Tokyo with my boss Eero Salmelin. In the beginning we were focussed on technology development: optics, sensor, mechanics, algorithms (and tons of other details). The actual product program was started much later.

What are the challenges of putting zooms into mobile phone cameras?

Before the 808 PureView, we had been working quite a while with optical zooms, and we actually had two products with optical zoom in the market (N93 and N93i). However, there some very big challenges with optical zoom technology in mobile phones.

To make them small enough, the sensor size tends to get small, which results in bad or average image quality. Also, the optics get complex, with very many elements and two moving groups. Even if the optics design looks good on paper, manufacturing tolerances can seriously hurt its performance in actual use.

The Nokia N93 was released in 2006 and featured a 3MP camera and 3X optical zoom.

Another issue is aperture - the F number at the lens' tele position would be pretty small. This would reduce the low light performance, obviously, but would also reduce the sharpness due to diffraction. Another issue is that the exposure times might get too long, causing a lot of blurry images due to handshake.

The 808 PureView camera solves all those problems: we can use a very large, high quality sensor, the optics are simple and elegant which makes images extremely sharp, and because zooming isn't optical, the lens' F number stays the same throughout the zoom range. Also, the closest focussing distance stays the same throughout the zoom range for the same reason.

What challenges did you encounter in putting such a high-resolution sensor into a phone?

There were many challenges but one of the biggest was how to process all the data fast enough. Making that happen required a lot of innovation in all technology areas: optics, sensor, mechanics, image processing, algorithms… and then we had a lot of work to do, getting all of this to integrate seamlessly. You simply cannot design optics, sensor and image processing independently from each other.

How will you send the message that the 41MP sensor is for better quality images, not bigger images?

I think the easiest way to get the message of the image quality is just to see the images!

In the default mode the camera captures 5MP images, and the quality of those 5MP images is just amazing. We need to separate two things: output resolution - what is right number of megapixels for the outputting image files - and input resolution - what is the resolution of the sensor that is used to capture the image.

When we have the huge input resolution, we have a lot of advantages: oversampling improves the signal to noise ratio, dynamic range, and the output files have very natural non-processed look without signs of interpolation, sharpening or noise filtering. In addition, we can zoom without reducing the lens' maximum aperture.

Starting with a larger number of smaller photosites but outputting at a lower resolution allows us to increase the signal to noise ratio, too, too. By combining the signals from 7 neighboring diodes, you can get the same signal to noise ratio as you would from a photodiode seven times larger (if you do it right). Of course, we could have just used fewer, larger photosites, but then you would lose all the advantages of oversampling, plus the ability to zoom.

So, its not the number of megapixels, but how they are used. Why make 41MP output an option at all?

Even if the camera is 5MP in the default mode, we don’t want to limit how people use the camera.

If you capture the full resolution image, you do record the highest possible amount of details. We can envisage situations where somebody might want to use the full resolution mode for important images or for making very big prints (like the 9 meter print I mentioned earlier).


This shot was taken at the 808's maximum resolution of 38MP.	This is a 2MP crop of the image on the left, which gets rid of the distracting foreground - 2MP is still a perfectly useable resolution for small prints and web use.

Another advantage is having the ability to crop. I was skiing in Northern Finland recently, and I suddenly saw some reindeers. I only had a couple of seconds to get the shot. I started the camera by pressing the camera button, pointed it in the right direction, and captured a full resolution image, then cropped it down later, on a computer.

Can you give us any detail about how the oversampling works?

I cannot tell you much. But I can tell you that it happens in various steps and obviously it depends on the zoom ratio. Also, we are using a separate chip for image processing to handle the huge amount of data.

Have you been working with Microsoft on PureView?

Ha ha! We are discussing many topics with Microsoft...

Why Symbian? And will we see Pureview on future Nokia/Microsoft phones?

Nokia only announced our collaboration with Microsoft a little over a year ago. You don’t develop something like PureView in such a short time. We have already announced that our plans are to bring Pureview technologies to our future Windows Phone portfolio.

How do you think people will use this technology in the 808?

I think people will use the 808 not only because it’s the proverbial 'camera that you have with you' but because it is a really good camera! I’m an amateur photographer myself and I have been surprised how many of my 'serious' photos have been captured with the 808 PureView in the past months (rather than my bigger cameras).

The 808 PureView might also be attractive to professionals who need a high quality and durable camera as a backup to their main equipment. There can be also applications where a big professional device just does not fit due to their size or some rougher environments where you don’t want to risk something more costly.

Because of its portability, I think the 808 PureView would be great for many hobbies, like skateboarding, digiscoping, underwater (with some protective cover of course). I have actually received lots of emails from poeople all over the world with ideas for all kinds of interesting projects. Now that the product is available, I look forward to see these ideas put into practise.

What next for Nokia? Do you want to become the serious photographers' phone manufacturer?

Nokia has long heritage of producing excellent camera phones. We made our first camera phone, the 7650 ten years ago. The N90 was our first device with autofocus and Carl Zeiss optics, the N93 featured our first optical zoom in a mobile phone camera, and the N95 introduced a 1/2.5" sensor. More recently the N82 was our first cameraphone with a xenon flash, the N86 had a variable lens iris, the N8 had a 1/1.8" image sensor, and now we're introducing the 808 PureView, which introduces an even bigger sensor, and our proprietary oversampling.

It's hard to believe that all of this has happened in just ten years. Mobile imaging technology has been progressing amazingly fast in all its technology areas… and we are not stopping here!

Click here to go to page 5 of our review of the Nokia PureView 808

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Total comments: 347

Oversampling technology is not new...

0 upvotes

Did anyone say it was?

1 upvote

The surprise is that anyone did it. And the big surprise is that it was on a phone. And maybe the even bigger surprise is that it was Nokia. I would have guessed Samsung. They have their own manufacturing of sensors.

So - the big question right now is: when will camera makers dare to do over sampling?

0 upvotes

Oversampling may not be new but when Nokia first started designing this phone over 5 years ago there was no other camera with it, the 1st camera to introduce binning was the Phase One 65+ which didn't start selling until a year after Nokia had begun working on "pureview"

2 upvotes

What a pity! Nokia PureView 808 is so sophisticated technology, but it doesn't have thread for tripod ...

0 upvotes

Hence the Nokia accessory as shown in the picture.

2 upvotes

I wonder, does this pixel over-sampling trick has any affect on bokeh, when comparing 38MP and 3MP same close up shots?
Pureview technology is meant to look for sharpest (best) pixels in the over-sampling process, so how it behaves in the blurred parts of the picture?

0 upvotes

Nope. None at all, no difference.

0 upvotes

It's similar to cropping.

0 upvotes

I think DS's point is that if Pureview's algorithm aims for sharpness, how does it render areas that you actually want to be smooth, i.e. Bokeh. You don't want it to sharpen the endges or highlights in the bokeh.

If it was a straight crop, this wouldnt be a problem. But Pureview is trying to be smarter than that to increase image quality.

0 upvotes

I love the images, but I need Android. Hopefully Samsung and Sony will step up.

11 upvotes

Indeed !!!

0 upvotes

Technically Android is step back, like VHS to Betamax video recorder formats. Android needs more memory and processor power, needs more developer efforts, is less environment friendly, but addicted simple people prefers it, i.e. people prefers giving more money to billionaires losing their time on tapping and seeing Android phone ;)

4 upvotes

Why do you "need" Android? What does it do that Windows Phone can not?

0 upvotes

A separate volume control for music and ringtones would be a start! Support for memory cards, Bluetooth file exchange, background download of podcasts blah blah blah.... these are all showstoppers for me.

Windows Phone as it stands is seriously compromised compared to Android, iOS and even Symbian - a lot of style overs substance.

However, looking forward to Windows Phone 8, hopefully it should plug some of the major gaps, especially if it can support PureView technology.

1 upvote

My biggest gripe with Android is the lack of a dedicated shutter button.
If the 808 ran WP7 I would've been all over it.

0 upvotes

Why do you "need" Android? Apps. Windows Phone is really a very nice platform, but it's way too late to the game. If you want your phone to run a good selection of apps, you buy iOS or Android.

0 upvotes

@BrunoH. I need an app called MyLifeOrganized, a to-do list/project management database enabling multiple sorting of action items, eg sort action items by context, or by date, or by project. It's available for the competing platforms, but not for WP. The developer says it depends on uptake. Unfortunately WP, which ought to be the business choice, lacks business apps (see this post on WP forum, for example: http://forums.wpcentral.com/marketplace-apps/186782.htm).

In addition I like the Samsung Note form factor and pen/drawing capability. This, apparently, is not visible in any WindowsPhone road maps I've seen.

Comment edited 12 minutes after posting

1 upvote

@ BubbaHotepUK

Don't worry. Everything you mentioned (and lots more) are in the new Windows Phone 8 OS. Look at the new Nokia phones coming this fall and I think you will not be disappointed, especially if they got pureview built in! :-)

0 upvotes

@Tadeusz60: I can say all of those about every phone platform and manufacturer. They're hurting environment and someone's trying to get their grubby hands on your money.

Why people like or even "need" android? Because it makes their life easier. I need Gotomeeting on my phone because that's company's conferencing software of choice. I want the mobile banking app, remote control of my entertainment center, I want a good browser, webgl support. I would like good integration with google contracts, calendar, etc. And I want to write my own programs for it, no dev tools for linux. I want to be able to tinker around.

Some people use their phones for a helluva lot things and like to keep it that way.

0 upvotes

@ JWest

So 110.000 apps (and counting) is not god enough :-)

And don't forget that Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 will have the same runtime, which means that Windows 8 apps will be easily ported to Windows Phone 8. I am not missing any major apps on my Windows Phone, actually there are far more apps than I ever care to look at :-)

0 upvotes

@ Gadgety

True. apps have been coming slower to WP7 although they are coming. But apps will be very easily ported between Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. So do all these companies making iOS apps just ignore the whole Windows market? I don't think so. they will make apps for Windows 8, and then porting to Windows Phone 8 is just a setting in the compiler - easy done. My guess is that the synergy with Windows 8 will push Windows Phone 8 forward a lot.

and one more thing...

Pen support is built in to Windows 8 tablets. Which could be shipped in any size hardware makers want. So for pen input and bigger screens than a phone, there will probably be some options this holiday season.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

Yes, naturally just flipping a switch in the compiler will make an app written for a 23" screen work perfectly on a 3" one. :)

0 upvotes

I like that we can compare the Nokia 808 photo quality now with other cameras on dpreview. But I think you should give us the chance to compare the 8 MP way because 43 MP is not the way people use.

And to Nokia: how is it possible to make such an innovation with such an unflexible OS? Are those decisions the reason for the fall?

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

You have that option - look in the 'ISO' dropdown and you'll see there's an (8MP) option per ISO sensitivity setting

1 upvote

top!

0 upvotes

Unflexible OS? On WP the PureView technology is not supported (yet?). By using their own OS they were able to make it work. Symbian is still widely used in Europe, my next phone will likely be Symbian, too. I don't like the locks of iOs, Android is a little better, WP8 possibly...

0 upvotes

* Nice backup cam for the D800 ... LOL
* Unfortunately the only smartphones sold are iPhone and Android models.
* Selling a smartphone with an already dead OS is not the best idea

2 upvotes

Many people still use Nokia 3310, for example. How dead would be this one?
Symbian will be supported till 2016, and it will not stop working afterwards

5 upvotes

"Unfortunately the only smartphones sold are iPhone and Android models."

Not so. Nokia has doubled their Windows Phone sales for three quarters in a row now. Although small marketshare, Windows Phone is superior to both Android and iPhone in many regards.

1 upvote

This "outdated" OS is to be supported until 2016.
http://www.phonearena.com/news/Nokia-outsources-Symbian-support-which-will-continue-until-2016_id22661/
Wonder if Android will still be around? ;)

Meanwhile there is a lot to like in Symbian too. You'll be transferring your images in a bar by blue-tooth out of the box, displaying your library on your friends HDMI TV
Enjoy real multitasking in stressful job environment, built in SIP (Voip), FM broadcasting of your music, free off-line navigation (ok, this great feature has recently been assimilated by MS through Nokia), creative camera applications being ported from the previous premier camera smartphone N8, etc.. extra long battery life when out in the bush and you need a reliable phone.

That said, the Symbian limit for screen resolution is really bothersome and Nokia's best modern OS to date is still Maemo (or the Harmattan-MeeGo version on the N9).

4 upvotes

@ vetsmelter

All those features are to be included in Windows Phone 8. And some are already in Windows Phone 7.5.

Symbian is a dead end at this point. Windows Phone 8 (with its tie-ins to Windows 8 and the next Xbox) is the future.

0 upvotes

@ BrunoH
When the Nokia N8 was released I did not want to touch it but a year later nothing better was out yet.
Symbian will be around till 2016 (unless Nokia cheats their loyal consumers once more)
Sure you can wait for WP8 to be released later this year.
Then another year at least till PureView Camera tech gets finally integrated in a WP8 Nokia. (I know, so called really soon)

Today Symbian has all the real smartphone features it had for years, features which iOS and WP are still adding in their next iteration of OS + it offers Pureview technology.

I don't think MS is happy that their new smartphone hardware division launches this technology on the old platform which was declared "dead" by ex-employee Elop taking Nokia CEO office while saying exactly the same thing as you do: wait for the Windows Phone 7 Nokia's later this year (2011).
Well they were just phones, they are in the bargain bin right now and Symbian still offers the candy.
Sorry , dev cycles are too long to wait.

1 upvote

The high ISO images (ISO 1600) in good light look good at normal viewing size, but the low-light ISO 1600 have some banding issues like the 2nd image (pool players) and the 6th image (purple bedside lamp) and blotchiness.

It's clear that the Zeiss lens is extremely sharp (like the RX100 lens which is impressive) although there seems to be some wavy mustache distortion seen in the 10th image (Do Not Disturb).

0 upvotes

As for use of this tech in a cell phone, fitting such a large sensor is hard. However, the little Zeiss optic on this phone appears to resolve well enough to essentially match the sensor -- which is really impressive.

An APS-C sensor with the same density would have about 165MP. The real benefit to that and higher pixel counts in APS-C and larger cameras will be different from what it is in a compact/cell-phone form factor: out-resolving the lens will solve a lot of problems. That said, if Zeiss can create an optic like the one in this cell phone, perhaps they can build a smallish, fast, optic for APS-C cameras (especialy the NEX line) that can resolve 165MP? ;)

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

808 has a plastic lens, as it is possible to make extremely good small plastic lenses cheaply, fairly fast diffraction limited even in this case. Bigger ones are not possible due to softness of the material, so bigger lenses must be glass, which can not be pressed but have to be ground to shape which is comparatively hugely expensive.

5 upvotes

Add to that is a single working aperture of the camera. Design would bring out the best of the single aperture and focal length of the lens.

0 upvotes

Well, according to Zeiss (quoted at Nokia's WWW site), the problem is that "a larger plastic surface area expands and shrinks too much at different temperatures." Glass is frequently pressed into aspherical shapes (most of my modern lenses have at least one such surface), but according to the same article, the plastic lenses used are extreme asphericals that "seem dimpled" - with shapes beyond what glass easily does.

The APS-C sensor needs an image circle just over 2X this diameter -- and the 808 diagonal is about 1.9X bigger than typical cell phone sensors, so we're halfway there with plastics. ;) Diffractive optics give an alternative way to cheaply implement complex optical transforms. I don't think we'll see 165MP APS-C lenses soon, but I think applying the same level of cleverness and new tech to design of lenses for mirrorless systems should get us there.

0 upvotes

too bad I hate phones ...ha

1 upvote

Impressive camera for a mobile phone.

Nokia should likewise do so with it's interface.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Can't wait to see it on a Windows Phone 8.

5 upvotes

'pixel oversampling combines many pixels to create a single (super) pixel'.

What if it actually were a real super single pixel instead of combining 5 smaller ones, so the sensor itself would be 8MP. Would a straight 8MP image from that size sensor be better?

0 upvotes

Maybe but you couldn't 'zoom' in the same way.

1 upvote

Barney is right you wouln't have the capability to zoom. Adding to that the performance would otherwise be virtually the same. So this way you get the best of both worlds. :)

0 upvotes

Wow, you were not kidding with its image quality and Gold award! I compared it to an S100, XZ-1, and LX5 and they look like a joke to this phone at ISO 200 and beyond.
At first, as I expecting any compacts will beat the Nokia in higher ISOs due to its high MP count (same pixel pitch though) but no, it was clearly the opposite.
I hope this sends a message to the companies above that compacts need a larger sensors like the RX100.
Put this on a modern OS, I'll get my first smartphone.

2 upvotes

Most better compacts DO beat the 808 at high ISO. ISO 800 is pretty much the last usable setting on the 808. ISO 1600 looks unusable. The 1/2.3" Fuji X10 you can safely shoot to ISO 3200 with good detail, and unobtrusive noise. And an S100 with it's 1/1.7" sensor can comfortably shoot at ISO 3200.

Having shot the RX100 for the past week, it's great, but the X10 with the slightly smaller sensor and faster lens can achieve some nicer shallow DOF images at the long end. But both cameras have much better DR than the 808 which clearly has a major issue with clipping highlights. That's a major bummer.

0 upvotes

Then congratulations to your new Lumia Phone! In September Nokia will showcase their new hardware lineup for Windows Phone 8. I bet Pureview will be in a Lumia Phone by then. That Windows Phone is the smartphone OS with highest customer satisfaction rating is nothing to sneeze at either.

1 upvote

@marike6
I think what you're referring to is the absence of noise, which is done in-software/camera. There is clearly less noise but the detail is lost, smearing actually. The x10 is actually the worst of compacts with huge loss of detail at the absence of noise.

Comment edited 8 minutes after posting

0 upvotes

@BrunoH
September, then that's just a month away. Hope they could add more than just an OS change.
Imagine a slim camera, better than compacts in terms of IQ and LCD which happens to include a smartphone! LOL!

0 upvotes

symbian is modern you've just got to try it to see heck it still does things that other os' can't out of the box

0 upvotes

@DPreview, could you add LPH detail to this review

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 13 minutes after posting

2 upvotes

We don't have the precise control over white balance and exposure that we'd need to do our *standard* resolution test, but we're working on ways to get around these limitations when testing mobile devices...

1 upvote

the price $699 is acceptable, since 'two year contract agreement plans' are at least $300 - $600 more than no-contract plans.

0 upvotes

Impressive, as i thought. the highlight clipping was a little disappointing and the HDR feature on my HTC has just arrived with an upgrade. So i'm sure thats no real hassle for a Nokia firmware upgrade.

With technology advancing like it has, this was inevitable. Compacts may well be in danger

Thanks Dpr, that was a justifiable and well put together review. I know you have issues being pushed for time and so many reviews to do.

Not available in Australia unless buying the whole handset from an importer.

3 upvotes

well there are hdr apps

0 upvotes

We should give one to an Olympic photographer right away while there's still time.

11 upvotes

Why didn't you use exposure compensation? I also see some camera movement in your samples. Puzzled by the review.

0 upvotes

I did use exposure compensation quite a lot, but it isn't always reported accurately in exif (I'm using Adobe Bridge CS6 and it doesn't display at all). As for camera movement, I really hope that you *can't* see camera movement, but send me a PM with the images you suspect and I'll take a closer look.

0 upvotes

The Nokia 808 really looks AMAZING !! Who makes an adaptor so I can put my 6x7 pentax 600mm f 4 on the front of it?? ( Just for fun.). Really I like the Idea. Just AMAZING really. I would love to see alot of real world shots. I think this camera will be hard to beat,, and fun too.

1 upvote

Unless I'm misunderstanding something you're saying — and I might be — I think you misunderstand the relationship between zooming and cropping as they affect depth of field. Assuming you print at the same size, and assuming you have enough resolution to actually resolve a distinction between blur and sharpness, Nokia's optical zoom should actually provide just as much blur effect as a real greater focal length.

See http://photo.stackexchange.com/a/10121/1943 for more on this (or http://photo.stackexchange.com/a/9626/1943 for a more math-heavy explanation).

1 upvote

Are there any iPhone users that can comment on this gallery compared to what they have shot? Just curious....

0 upvotes

I have the first iPhone and have taken a few pictures with it. I'd say if I get a clear 600X800 I'm lucky. I'm watching this market closely to see if a smartphone can replace my small compact... just one less thing to carry. With a different operating system, I think this would do it.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting

3 upvotes

Given that this will come to Windows Phone this fall and that the current Nokia Lumia Windows Phones has most satisfied customers (http://blog.amplifiedanalytics.com/2012/07/customer-satisfaction-with-windows-smart-phones-rise-by-18/)
One would have to be crazy to not switch to Windows Phone if you like taking pictures... :-)

1 upvote

A 38 megapixel phone with a Zeiss lens, in a package that looks like something desgined for the 1964 Worlds Fair. Wild. I'd like it a lot better without the phone but I suppose you can turn that part off. I've been saying all along that anybody can take "professional" photos with auto-everything cameras (Sony even auto-composes) and soon everybody will be equiped to do so.

1 upvote

I am using the Nokia 808 PureView for some weeks now and I am still impressed by its image quality. This phonecam gives me a lot of fun and I appreciate dp's review. I agree with most of dp's conclusions.

7 upvotes

Alright....but does it have a left focus point issue?

5 upvotes

So much money for an average compact camera with an obsolete phone attached! Similar price to an unlocked iPhone 4s or Galaxy S III, which both do a decent job of taking snapshots... sorry Nokia, the camera concept is good, but the package does not appeal.

1 upvote

It's a camera review site, not a smartphone review site. In your opinion then no matter how impressive the camera is, the package "does not appeal" unless it's attached as part of either Google's or Apple's latest and greatest?

I have to say, it's quite a narrow world view.

13 upvotes

i have the htc one x with latest android os..but i am using the 808 as my main phone...well..yes the camera is just superb on the other hand while my htc cries for a recharge after 7 hours of my normal use...my 808 lasted me 2 days without charging...

6 upvotes

@wy2lam: If you were telling that this is a camera review site, then I must say this "Camera 808" does not appeal. As a camera it provides no optical zoom, poor dynamic range, incomplete set of camera features, and the image quality is only on par with some low level DC.

If it is a pure camera, I will say it can only get a pass score. We rate it a high score because it is a "phone camera". So when we talk about its value, talk it in whole: the camera, the phone, the OS, etc etc.

1 upvote

@Anfernee Cheang

To be fair we need to compare it to other devices in it's class.
For example, your method of comparison would see cameras like the new EOS-M or Nikon 1 compared directly to the Canon 1DX, (because they're all just cameras), which really isn't a relevant as they're completely different beasts.

Here at DPR, which is a photography based site, I think the 808 should be defined as being a phone camera with the review focusing on the camera. If we want to see a review on the phone as a whole then we should look for reviews on the dedicated phone review sites rather than here.

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting

1 upvote

I bought one myself for my wife actually. And the best way to describe this phone is to be treated as a fujifilm X100 equivalent, a fixed focal lens camera that give exceptional quality and convenience.

2 upvotes

@sir_bazz

Frankly speaking, I totally agree with your point. And that's also the reason DPR gave awards to the reviewed cameras, which did great jobs in their own classes.

My first post is because ismith presented his/her feeling that the "package" itself does not appeal. But wy2lam stated that ismith should focus on the camera. Well, actually ismith did not say the camera is bad. We all know this is a camera site. But we can still point out that the good camera does not make the overall phone attractive, can we? ;-)

1 upvote

@wy2lam

I think you miss the point. This product is a phone with an amazing development in camera performance for such devices - and certainly if you want the best 'cameraphone' this is the right product for you, but the camera isn't good enough to replace my old compact, and the technology of the phone won't do all the things I can do with an Apple or Android system. I am allowed to by narrow minded about the products I buy, especially when I want the best from both camera and phone. If they do release a Windows/Android version, then 'the package' will appeal more to me.

0 upvotes

gold? lol

0 upvotes

My biggest dislike of camera phones is the horrible ergonomics. I'll have to read this review more carefully -- it sounds like this might have a better physical shutter button than most. I've noticed that there are a lot of really bad photos out there on social media that have been taken with phones. One issue is that while more people than ever have phones, a lot of people lack basic technique and composition, or it simply isn't a priority for them given the circumstances, which is fair enough for spontaneous snap shots. But, I really think that having to try and hold a cameraphone still that has an awkward shape, maybe not even have a physical shutter button, which you then have to contort your thumb or index finger to take a picture, causing camera shake, is just not a good idea. I find the camera on my i-product occasionally convienient, but never enjoyable.

Comment edited 42 seconds after posting

0 upvotes

Banding at high ISO..

0 upvotes

Come on, it's a phone!

0 upvotes

I don't know, if it is me, but I have not been impressed at all by the samples and pictures provided there. Maybe I forgot how picture from point-and-shoot looks like, but these look mushy and really camera-phone like. Best point and shoots with smaller sensor (LX3 comes to mind) provide sharper outputs..

1 upvote

Compare the studio sample against the D800.

Of course the difference is there, but it is not that high, considering the much smaller sensor and the "lens".

It is not a bad result at all.

3 upvotes

It's not you. I'm impressed by the images DPR took, but not the quality. They are great for a phone, but remember that when this camera was announced people here were sounding the death knell for P&S yet I can think of any number of high end compacts that spank this camera phone. The worse part is the highlight roll-off and DR.

1 upvote

@marike6: you're right, they are great for a phone, and this is... well... a phone!

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you could check out the 808 flickr groups for some better samples

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It's very impressive that Nokia have followed through with such an innovative product, which must have taken quite an investment in R&D. It's such a shame that we can't expect to see a camera like this on an Android phone any time soon.

Out of interest, is there any reason not to shoot with it in 38MP mode all the time? Correct me if I'm wrong, but (fantastic though the specs are) it sounds very much like any other digital zoom, just with a much more detailed initial image to work with.

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They touched on it on page 2. 3 sec processing time instead of 1 sec. That's pretty significant.

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That's inconvenient, but still worth it. Shooting in full resolution means you're reserving the option to zoom (i.e. crop) until post-processing. Shooting in zoomed mode, or a lesser megapixel non-zoomed mode, just means discarding information needlessly, which is something I'm not willing to do.

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reviewer notes that there's less noise/clipping/etc in pureview mode

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You're half wrong about the on-screen histogram, it will display when you select exposure compensation. Unfortunately half-pressing the shutter button makes it vanish again...

Interestingly you haven't mentioned either of my two biggest bugbears with it though:

* The inexcusable lack of a lens cover. Holding it in portrait mode pretty much guarantees you'll stick fingerprints all over the lens. I've had to resort to wrapping it in a lens cloth when it's in my pocket...

* The lack of image stabilization. I don't really have a problem when using it at 8MP, but I get a lot of shake problems at 38MP. I want to use the full resolution when I can.

The lens cover thing might not be such an issue if it weren't for the fact that the optional cover ($$$) isn't readily available in the UK. I've had to order mine from Amazon US, and I've been given a ship date of 1-4 months. Similar problems with the tripod mount.

Surely this cameraphone deserves a DPR award though; my issues notwithstanding!

Comment edited 1 minute after posting

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You're quite right about the histogram, I just made a quick edit to make that clearer. I can't really get the histogram to be useful at all, to be honest, given the confusing disparity in some situations, between the live view brightness and the final exposure. Also, as you say, it dismisses when you exit exposure comp.

As regards the lens being prone to smear, I didn't go into it because it's a universal weakness of devices of this type. I've been using the hard case, which has a neat little cover, but this isn't perfect, because it makes the delicate 'two press' action of the shutter button harder to guage. Some things are still nicer on a 'proper' camera ;)

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Thankyou for updating it Barney!

The lens cover isn't a universal issue with cameraphones though - my previous cameraphone, the Motorola ZN5 (Kodak collaboration) has a physical lens cover in a very similar form factor to the 808.

Comment edited 11 minutes after posting

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i got my cover by just driving to a store nearby....and i got the tripod mount for free when buying the 808 from the authorized reseller....gee...i got lucky XD

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Just to share, Damian Dining, one of the chief engineer that give birth to the pureview, did share that should a lens cover to be included, it will make the lens area thicker by 2mm. Not everyone wants that sort of thickness.
Just to share that apparently lots of stuff have been thought of during the designing phase.

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well its gorilla glass so you shouldnt fret about scratches and a simple wipe does away with fingerprints (something i was concerned about as well)

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@peter32: I'm sure they did discuss it, but having made that decision they I think they should have put a snap on cover in the box so we have the option of choosing for ourselves.

I know they sell covers with built in caps (and I have one on order) but considering the purchase price, I feel that something should have been in the box. Particularly since it may well be 4 months before my cover actually arrives...

@magneto shot: I'd say you did! Bought mine from an authorized seller too, and I got the standard contents of the box, nothing more, nothing less.

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Total comments: 347