Mid-range Mirrorless camera roundup 2013

One of the most significant developments in digital photography has been the introduction of mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. By removing the mirror and optical viewfinder, manufacturers are able to make their cameras smaller, without compromising ergonomics, performance and, in most cases, image quality.

Composing photos on a mirrorless camera is different from a DSLR in that you use the camera's LCD (or electronic viewfinder, if the camera offers it). Instead of using a traditional phase detection system like a DSLR, mirrorless cameras use their imaging sensors to handle focusing. Focusing speeds on the latest cameras often meet or exceed those of DSLRs.

While the mirrorless market started off very slowly, there's now a wide selection of cameras available from all of the major manufacturers. In this article, we'll be covering the midrange models, which have list prices ranging from $749 to $1399 with a kit lens. They include:

Since the range in pricing is so great, we believe there are two groups of people who may be considering cameras in this class. One group wants a more compact, secondary camera in addition to their DSLR, but want more direct control than less expensive mirrorless models offer. The other is the photographer for whom this will be their only camera - someone who wants DSLR image quality and control without the additional size or weight.

On the following pages you'll get a quick summary of each camera, and what we liked (or didn't like) about them).

Comments

Total comments: 209
12
Scots Don
By Scots Don (1 month ago)

Can we have a full review of the Panasonic DMC-G6 please? And the H-FS14140 14-140mm lens?

4 upvotes
emilclick
By emilclick (2 months ago)

Ineresting here that the title of the article is about G6 review and I don't see something like this. Article have few informations like comon anounce about G6 And the comments is all the world around about but not G6. It is a Olimpus fan group. About Fujifilm vs. Olimpus. Something about Canon Eos M and many others including Sony NEX and Samsung NX but nothing about G6. Is a big disappointment becose I come here to find something new, interesting or triks about G6 and I read with much ptience all 205 comments for nothing.

1 upvote
h2k
By h2k (3 weeks ago)

Agreed, i had also clicked on something like "G6 review" and there is nothing like it here.

I don't demand a full review of every camera, but i think it would be nice to have an honest description of this descriptive text - "review" certainly is not the correct word.

I understant that "review" brings in readers through Google searches. I wonder if would be disappointed when seeing what is posted as a review here.

0 upvotes
Peter CS
By Peter CS (2 months ago)

Wish it were weather-sealed! First advanced, weather-sealed APC mirrorless that also has a weather-sealed, ultra-wide zoom get my vote in dollars!

0 upvotes
rfsIII
By rfsIII (1 month ago)

Ziploc and a couple of rubber bands. Done.

0 upvotes
afm
By afm (2 months ago)

Don't worry, I read the review elswhere

0 upvotes
darngooddesign
By darngooddesign (3 months ago)

What do you think about the Fuji X-M1 vs the Samsung NX300?

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
1 upvote
GSC
By GSC (3 months ago)

To: Pluent Thanks for your comments.

I travel extensively to see the world for the last 7~8 years and here is a link to some pics taken in Singapore, Thailand in 2013: https://plus.google.com/photos/114566061690049534088/albums/5964407035386510273?authkey=CJjTn9y-wcvvfQ

I gave up on DSLR's & have been using Point & Shoot's like Fuji F-31fd, Lumix ZS7 & LX5 for compact sizes. LX5 is good w/ low-light shots but has 3.5 x zoom, luckily ZS7's 12X zoom compensates LX5's insufficiency. Their limitations mostly due to small sensors, especially when taking pictures inside grand churches, palaces & hotels, also focus-speed is too slow.

With the kind of pics I take, Fuji-Zuiko's 18-55 or Olympus' 12-50 (Or 12-60) will suit me just fine & I use just one lens.

Another review about Oly E-M5:
http://photofocus.com/2013/01/04/olympus-om-d-em-5-micro-four-thirds-long-term-review/

Sony still sells M4/3's but Full-frame sensor & small body is their next target.

So should I buy Fuji or Oly? Tks.

0 upvotes
Pluent
By Pluent (3 months ago)

GSC, such a tough decision, and were money not a great factor in the decision, I would have an even harder time at it. From other forum feeds and reviews, I would say go with the Fuji as it will probably give better low-light performance, and a little better image quality if you are going to "pixel-peep." However, I say that hesitantly, as good image quality, and preferences for image appearance differ. If you shoot JPEG only, Fuji won't look exactly like Olympus JPEGS, their colors are a little different when processed on board, and honestly both Fuji and Olympus are both well known for how good their JPEG images look. The comparison qould be more difficult were you to compare the Fuji XE2 with the Olympus EM1 which has better ISO performance than does the EM5.

I looked at the pictures you linked with your reply, and haven't seen any close up/portrait style shots; seeing performances and street shots where lighting can vary greatly. The nice thing about the XE2 is that it has both contrast and phase detection for its focusing drive, that said if it works as Fuji claims, it should outperform the EM5 in focus speeds with both still and moving shots, I haven't read anything confirming this in a real world setting, however.

So, yes, got with the Fuji, unless you plan on getting wet or playing in the sand. The crop factor of the Fuji XE2 is about 1.5 vs the 2 of the Olympus, so the wider angle will be more easily obtained from the Fuji kit lens over the Olympus kit lens- but the depth of field will be a little different between the two, not likely to matter too much with street and wide stage shots as far as I understand.

Hope this helps, again, I say it with some hesitation, they are both great cameras!

0 upvotes
Pluent
By Pluent (3 months ago)

GSC, even though I suggested to go with the XE2, please don't just take my word for it, I really don't feel like I know your preferences well enough, and am guru enough to do more than suggest. Good luck!

0 upvotes
GSC
By GSC (3 months ago)

Pluent, Thanks for your comments again.

I am not knowledgeable enough to decide between Fuji XE2 and Oly EM5 for my picture shooting style. In addition to those shown in my link I do shoot family photos but nothing professional enough to call them "Portraits". I am just an amateur loves to take pictures of scenery...buildings....flowers....people...anything beautiful and interesting in life while I travel. And I prefer one-single lens to suit all purpose if possible and that brings up another question: With my next camera would M4/3 lens in 12-60 range fulfill my photo requirements? (Don't mind to pay a bit more for a pro-grade lens but try to shy away from 24-200 type of lens as which doesn't offer much quality)

Just found another option: Samsung NX30: http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/01/02/first-impressions-samsung-nx30/

On Specification alone it seems to be better than the Oly EM5 and Fuji XE2. How do you like it?

Would appreciate if you don't mind to comment again. Tks.

0 upvotes
wchay
By wchay (3 months ago)

A little correction to a repeated comment here. The 1.5x crop factor of the Fuji has the potential to give wider fields of view over the 2x crop of the Olympus, but it all depends on the lenses compared. In this case, comparing the Fuji 18-55 kit lens and the Olympus 12-50 kit lens, you're going to get the wider angle on the Olympus:
12-50 @ 2x crop = 24-100 full frame equivalent
18-55 @ 1.5x crop = 27-83 full frame equivalent

3 upvotes
GSC
By GSC (4 months ago)

Please kindly help me to decide if I should buy the Olympus E-M5 or the FujiFilm X-E2?

As comparison:

Price (Canada): Oly: $945 Fuji: $1400 (Both with Kit lens)
Kit Lens: Oly: (Zuiko: 12-50 Images become fairly soft after the range of 12-35. Up-grade required?)
Fuji: Good rating throughout the whole range. (No need to upgrade)
Video: Oly: Rating: Very good Fuji: Just an after-thought
Raw to jpeg in-camera conversion: Oly: No (?) Fuji: Yes
Lens Upgrade: Oly: To Zuiko pro-series: 12-60 ($990) (Zuiko kit lens 12-50: $550) Is it worth to spend an addition of $500 on 12-60 lens? One major concern: Will the more bulky sized 12-60 lens cause any shadowing problems when flash light is being used?

One side-question: Rumours said Sony has already given up on developing Micro-four third cameras but totally concentrates on full-frame models like the A-7...is it still a smart idea to buy a 3/4 mirrorless camera at this time?

Thanks so much for your comments.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Pluent
By Pluent (3 months ago)

Two things before I get to my response; firstly I am not sure of for what purpose you will be using the camera predominantly, and secondly I am not sure what you meant by mentioning that Sony may have discontinued it's4/3 line up.

I am by no means a professional, but having been interested in both of these cameras I have learned a little.

You mentioned video, and yes, from what I have read, it seems Fuji is not such a video provider but it is great with still shots. The EM5 has 5-axis in body stabilization (IBIS) and is better equipped for video than the XE2, however, it isn't perfect, and would recommend you check out these cameras reviews at stevehuffphoto.com as he reviews both and has a separate review of the 12-50 lens kit of which you were questioning.

The Fuji X-Trans sensor is an oddity, in that it differs from Bayer type sensors that can cost slight IQ (image quality) as the Bayer requires a low-bypass filter (or often does). However, as the sensor is odd in that it is proprietary, RAW processing with some software suites can be potentially harder with updates becoming available later on. That said, I hadn't heard until this post that landscape shooting was inadvisable for this system.... Interesting, will have to look into that. Thw X-Trans is supposed to offer higher sound to noise, and as it is larger than the 4/3 sensor, higher ISO should be a given. This goes back to the background of your decision - if you want to shoot wide angle shots the 4/3 system has a crop factor of 2, unlike the X-Trans which shot per shot provides a wider angle which is good or bad depending on your preferences and purpose.

Do you wish to shoot in inclement weather, on the beach, desert? If so, consider the EM5 as it is weather sealed, but beware the lens you get for it, for most micro four thirds lenses are weather sealed. The 12-50 is, though it is "slow" in that it's max aperture is f:3.5 and it has been said that it gets softer at wider f stops, you pointed out it is at higher focal lengths too- didn't know that, good to know as I will probably get an EM5 this year. The 12-40 is "brighter" in that it opens to f:2.8, and has very good reviews. The killer is the price, the 12-50 costs about $200 (US) used on amazon (still cheaper to buy with body as opposed to post purchase), but the 12-40 is nearly a thousand US dollars. There are at least two Olympus 4/3 lenses (not micro 4/3) that are weather sealed, and are brighter than the kit 12-50,however there is a catch in that it seems the 4/3 lenses focus slowly on the micro four thirds system, (if you go this route the 14-54 f:2.8-3.5 II AF is the best I have found, and can be purchased additionally with an adapter for less than $650 US , though make sure you get the Oly MMF-3 4/3 to micro 4/3 as it will maintain weather sealing between lens and camera (not all adapters do this). The Fuji lenses seem to be good pieces of glass, especially the 35 f/1.4,but again can't provide any recommendations as I don't know your background.

Lastly, if you care about where your camera is made, likely the Fuji is made in Japan, and the Olympus probably in China.

I like both of these systems, but as I have already invested in the m4/3 system, I have to lean that direction. The lenses available for the m4/3 system trump most if not all other systems, there are some Voigtlander primes with max apertures of f/. 95! Of course this is a good thing to create creamy bokeh with a smaller sensor, but the options are good for the m4/3, and IBIS means adding old 35mm lenses will still be sharp at longer focal lengths.

Hope this helps.

0 upvotes
Pluent
By Pluent (3 months ago)

GSC
WCHAY was right about the wider angle of kit lens being available for the Olympus, not sure why I forgot the kit lens for the Olympus was a 12-50mm.

As for the Samsung NX30, I couldn't be too sure what to say even less so than the comparison between the Fuji and the Olympus, as I couldn't bring up the price of the Samsung, and there are still things in Beta about it, it would be hard to say until it actually hits the market. From what I have read on it, it has a lot of nice features, making it quite competitive with the XE2 and EM5, tough decision.

One other thing, I believe you mention an Olympus 12-60 which I cannot seem to find in the micro four thirds set, only in the four thirds setup.

Your last post (sorry I didn't reply directly to it, there was no "reply" button), mentioned you do more types of shooting. If you shoot children or sports I would steer you back to the Olympus as there have been a lot of complaints about autofocus speed on the Fuji for fast moving subjects. With that note, there is a catch, and that is that the EM5 doesn't have phase detection so it won't track moving targets very well. The Fuji does have phase detection, but haven't heard that it's autofocus bests that of the EM5 as yet. Maybe with more firmware. Most mirrorless cameras won't take sports/action shots too well like a DSLR. I have heard good things about the Olympus EM1.

Tough decision to make GSC. The Fuji is more tailored for people who like to take time with shot composure, the Olympus is more user friendly for those who are new to the photography field. Not sure how experienced you are, but that is one more thought to consider. I love taking time with my shots, manual focusing, setting ISO and playing around with settings and almost went for the older XE1,but I just cannot as I fear taking pictures of active children will not be as easily accomplished. The customization of the EM5, I prefer the 2x crop factor, and the weather sealing make the deal breaker for me, even when Fuji has perhaps the better image quality and better low-light performance per lens kit. I had an Olympus EMP1 4/3 and can tell you an aperture of 3.5 or even the better 2.8 kit lens (12-40) will probably not be enough for most indoor shooting without flash. I purchased the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 and even then, it is a struggle with indoor shooting and no flash. The Fuji's larger sensor should do better, but do you shoot with flash? If you can spare the money, the Olympus M Zuiko Pro

If you are set on sticking with one kit lens, and shoot with flash, and shoot children or fast moving subjects, I would suggest getting the EM5 body, and separately the 12-40mm as it is worth the money in my opinion, as it is sharper and has a wider aperture which you will need with a 4/3 sensor.

If you rarely shoot fast moving subjects, and don't play in the rain and dust, go with the Fuji as I think it's image quality will be better. Of course if you want to wait until the Samsung comes out, these recommendations may be less pertinent.

Hope this made sense.

0 upvotes
Pluent
By Pluent (3 months ago)

GSC
For some reason my last reply was missing part of it's text. Anyways, the 12-40 is recommended if you get the EM5 as a body.

Also, when I say that the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 struggled with no flash, I meant with solely incandescent artificial light, and/or low natural light. Otherwise, if your room is well lit with good bulbs or sunlight, the 12-40 may be adequate as the Panasonic 20 1.7 was.

Good luck!

0 upvotes
Paul Barnham
By Paul Barnham (4 months ago)

As far as I am concerned I believe only micro-four thirds offers a full lense range (say 14 to 600 mm) in full frames 35mm terms. If buying into a camera system that would restrict my choice to the two panys and the olympus.

2 upvotes
Shellbo6901
By Shellbo6901 (4 months ago)

what camera should I choose if I will 75% of the time be using it for events both inside and outside(day & night)? I use my iphone right now, not because of the quality or photos or videos, but because the sound is better than any point and shoot I've had in the past. I am now on the hunt for a nice 4/3 that will have great sound and DSLR quality to it's photos and videos.

0 upvotes
Munene
By Munene (4 months ago)

I need some straight advice, please: GX7 or XE2?

Background: I used to shoot with my Leica M6. I do mostly street photography. I love my GF1, but am ready to upgrade. Two issues: I do not like the way the light meter reads in GF1 (or I use it wrong), why not a match like the old days (needle, diodes)? I don't know if the exposure is correct until I press the shutter? Again, this could be me. The XE2 has a shutter dial on the camera, but how does this affect reading the light meter inside the viewfinder? THIS IS A BIG ISSUE.

So, GX7 or XE2? I am not too concerned with video or wifi or whatever, just good images. Does the fuji processor trump the 4/3? I sometimes enlarge to 20X24. My old Leica (and Canon FTb), I have prints 4' X 6'! Both are awesome (not really planning more, I used to print at a lab).

Unfortunately I cannot find a store that carries both for me to look at (or even one of them, where I live).

Here is what I shoot: www.visualquotations.com

Thank you!

0 upvotes
Munene
By Munene (4 months ago)

Oooops, I meant does the Fuji sensor (not processor) trump the 4/3?

0 upvotes
Dresdenboy
By Dresdenboy (4 months ago)

Have you tried the studio test scene link on the particular camera pages?

My favorite there are the color circles right to the bottles. There are corner cases like red/blue color combinations leading to strange lila (red+blue) borders.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=fujifilm_xe2&attr13_1=oly_em5&attr13_2=panasonic_dmcgx7&attr13_3=sony_nex6&attr15_0=jpeg&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=jpeg&attr15_3=jpeg&attr16_0=25600&attr16_1=25600&attr16_2=25600&attr16_3=25600&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.2794963775761412&y=-0.7062303335431089

This green plants also show some resolution issues. Somehow the X-E2 lens seems to be soft or not correctly focused (vs. sharper images with the X-A1).

0 upvotes
ronny hermans
By ronny hermans (4 months ago)

Somehow I don't get some of your points, you claim that the fuji x-e2 is lagging behind in the autofocus department, but don't have a review of it yet.
After years lugging a dslr around, and now a MiLC I believe they are becoming a great alternative to a dslr with no loss of quality.
Guess next time you'll have to have a high end mirrorless camera round up.

1 upvote
CMurdock
By CMurdock (5 months ago)

If this is a good camera, then what is a bad camera? The images from this camera are some of the softest that I have ever seen. The way to evaluate image sharpness is to look at the details in a landscape image, and all of the landscape sample images in this review are a blur. It astonishes me that DPR continues to give high marks to cameras that produce such bad images. Do the reviewers have eyes??? "Oh, it's an expensive camera from a high-end manufacturer, so it must have good image quality." What a joke.

0 upvotes
Neodp
By Neodp (5 months ago)

Seriously?

2 upvotes
Jun2
By Jun2 (5 months ago)

NEX 6 is so underrated. 1 stop advantage over any M4/3, and better DR in the shadow region.

0 upvotes
Felice62
By Felice62 (4 months ago)

because we are in m43 land here..
Forget objectiveness...

0 upvotes
NewForce
By NewForce (5 months ago)

What a skin-deep comparison test by famous DPR.

Even the Chinese websites dc.pconline.com.cn has done a much better & more complete review in their latest mid-level DSLM comparison test.

http://dc.pconline.com.cn/384/3840137_all.html#content_page_1

3 upvotes
b craw
By b craw (5 months ago)

OneGuy:

While I respect your decision to steer your purchases in the direction of your political conscience, increasingly corporations are global in terms of capital investment and ultimately who benefits from their success(es). And, while China's practices tend toward more insularity (therefore banning them may be a more appropriate targeting than other companies), unfortunately ethical behavior is worsening as globalism allows for increasing corporate obfuscation across the board.

2 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (5 months ago)

My guess is that you would not be as brainy-rational if China became more militaristic (or use NKorea)

0 upvotes
b craw
By b craw (4 months ago)

That would be all the more reason to be "brainy-rational". Or would you just suggest going off half-cocked, perhaps as the US did in Iraq?

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (5 months ago)

I think it's time to include the country of origin with the cam. It is a significant part of my buying decision. It is about the expected quality and it is also about my political preference. Instead of just complaining about Chinese policies, say, I would rather not buy Chinese right now.

0 upvotes
greenarcher02
By greenarcher02 (5 months ago)

Most Panasonic cameras are made in Japan. At least both my GX1 and GX7 are made in Japan.

1 upvote
markuc
By markuc (4 months ago)

What about the processor, lens, memory, sensor? or raw material origin? The truth is that even if the camera is manufactured in China, it only contributes to probably negligible of total cost. Additionally, these jobs provide many low skilled jobs which directly benefit the poor migrant class in China, and not the government.

While it might seem the right thing to do, you might want to ask yourself why? i.e. are you not just try to find a scapegoat in China? No offense but I find some Americans especially ignorant and self-righteous. Perhaps it's the American media that's almost always heavily biased... It's always easier to blame a foreign country and not interest groups within your own country.

Not suggesting that you should stop your grand mission to "send China a message", but if you wanted to express yourself, perhaps you should start closer to home. i.e. boycotting companies based on their tax evasion or outsourcing policies.

Comment edited 5 times, last edit 7 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

I can see that you "also" recommend the EOS M in your line up for the "first steps" beginners. I don't think that this cam is especially meant for this group.
But, on the other hand it is nice to see the mention of it.

3 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

I think E-M1 is a much better camera to use than E-M5 (though the on-sensor phase detection AF doesn't perform well and shadowed by the technical break-through of dual-pixel AF). the design of E-M5 is really bad, maybe second only to E-P1.

for the budget-friendly one, E-PM2 performs better and is sold for a much lower price than G6 though I'd like to have a grip and 60p.

0 upvotes
psn
By psn (5 months ago)

Keyword: Mid-range

Do you consider the $1300 E-M1 to be a mid-range camera?

0 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

then E-M1 is a lower mid-range camera of worst cost-performance at the moment.

0 upvotes
Alpha Whiskey Photography
By Alpha Whiskey Photography (5 months ago)

Love my EM5. Waterfalls, night shots, wildlife. Shot everything with it. Who wants my FX DSLR? ;)

http://alphawhiskey.slickpic.com/photoblog

1 upvote
Michael_13
By Michael_13 (5 months ago)

Great pictures, thanks for sharing!
You really seem to have lots of fun with your M5.

1 upvote
Alpha Whiskey Photography
By Alpha Whiskey Photography (5 months ago)

Thanks! Shot the hell out of it in just a couple of months! :)

0 upvotes
jimkh
By jimkh (5 months ago)

I'm so happy to see the G6 receive the praise that it deserves. I will never understand how DPR could fail to give this and the G5 a complete review. As far as bargains are concerned the G5 is now selling in the low $200 range. It is almost the equal of the G6 less a few bells and whistles like wifi.

Jimkh

6 upvotes
John Carson
By John Carson (5 months ago)

Your criticism of the GX7 for the limitations of its in-body stabilisation is ludicrous. No other Panasonic m43 camera has any in-body stabilisation at all and Nikon and Canon don't offer it. Panasonic breaks new ground by offering both types of stabilisation (in-body and in-lens) and for this it is criticised because its first attempt isn't state of the art.

The absurdity of your position is highlighted by the fact that you include the G6 in this comparison and its total lack of in-body stabilisation is not mentioned for criticism. Apparently having something is worse than having nothing in the mind of DP Review. Just ludicrous.

19 upvotes
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

I have the impression that DPReview tried to make a winner from each company and Pana GX7 + Oly E-PM2 might have been their plan B.

0 upvotes
Ikay
By Ikay (3 months ago)

100% agreement !

0 upvotes
bahamot
By bahamot (3 months ago)

Damn right! And it praise EM5's focusing speed, while I found it suffered quite a bit on low light and some missed focus. (It's the reason I "downgrade" from EM5 to GX7).

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
o_23
By o_23 (5 months ago)

I would vote for Canon EOS M. It has very intuitive touchscreen. Compact solid magnesium body. Compatible with all Canon lenses. Excellent IQ. Focusing is very accurate and pretty fast after June firmware update. I bought 2 cameras for $399 (kits with flash and 2 lenses). If you subtract prices of kit lenses and flash, the price of a camera is just ridiculous. I also prefer Canon colors, specifically skin tones look much more natural than from other cameras. Though I like Full Frame camera more for better bokeh, but I am tired to carry heavy FF lenses. My backpack is 3 times lighter now.

7 upvotes
jeff perkins
By jeff perkins (5 months ago)

I agree. I just bought one and took it to Yosemite for a Phil Hawkins workshop. A pleasure to use, lightweight compared to everyone else's DSLR packs and superb RAW image quality. I thought the touch screen was a gimmick until I learned how fast it is and the total control it gives you over the camera. I would wish for a snap on electronic viewfinder, but otherwise a great photo tool.

3 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (5 months ago)

The only reason the EOS-M isn't going to be included in these roundups is because we think it's on end-of-life sale and won't necessarily be available for the full lifetime of these roundups.

However, other than the slow autofocus, there's an awful lot to like about the EOS-M. I share Jeff's experience with the interface and suspect that a camera based around the 70D's dual pixel AF system could be very good (so long as the focus speed isn't inhibited by the design of the lenses).

2 upvotes
barryhk
By barryhk (5 months ago)

It took me a while to get use to the touchscreen menu, and I actually prefer the it over than the buttons and dials on my EOS DSLRs!!! (I have been using EOS gears since year 2000 and I owned 5 EOS, both film and digital)
Apart from the slightly slower than average focusing speed (though still acceptable), the battery life is another thing I dislike. I tried disabling features such as IS, flash control, etc, but seemed that didn't help much.
I endorse EOS-M to be mirrorless that value for money most in the year!

1 upvote
yabokkie
By yabokkie (5 months ago)

is the EOS M2 under review now?

in Japan there is an all-in-one kit including 18-55 and 22/2 lenses, EX-90 flash, and mount adapter for 430 US. a good price even without the camera.

0 upvotes
rdscibilia
By rdscibilia (5 months ago)

I bought one for $299 not that long ago. Is it perfect? No, but it is an awfully good camera for that price, and the image quality is excellent.

0 upvotes
MtOlympus
By MtOlympus (5 months ago)

I took my NEX 6 on a trip with my SLR. The SLR never got out of my camera bag. When I got home I sold the big camera that I had been so happy with, and bought a second NEX 6. Now I keep one loaded with a 12mm prime and the other with the 55-210. Life is now good!

2 upvotes
bb42
By bb42 (5 months ago)

So you always have a unique perspective...

1 upvote
ianbullock
By ianbullock (5 months ago)

NX300+30mm f2 fits in my jeans pocket. Yes, it looks a little silly, but it fits. I have it with me all the time as a result.

That might seem like a little thing, but for me the selection of tiny pancake prime lenses (16mm, 20mm, 30mm) was what drove me to buy the NX300.

6 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (5 months ago)

@ianbullock - that sounds like an excellent reason to choose one camera over another.

1 upvote
Bron
By Bron (5 months ago)

I love the Samsung 16mm - a joy to shoot with. Fantastic for the price asked.

0 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

also budget friendly G6 comes with very useful and insanely sharp lens for its class 14-140mm - II at an unbelievable price in the kit!!

3 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Still no love for EOS M?
Possibly smallest and (currently) least expensive camera with APS-C size sensor.
Incredible line up of supported (via adapter) EF/EF-S lenses.
You can get the kit with a nice lens for much less than any of the cams mentioned in this round up. In fact it is less expensive than most advanced fixed lens compacts mentioned in "leave the DSLR" section.
We all know about the M's quirks but even slight mention would be nice and well deserved.

6 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

yuck!!!

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Thats exactly what I thought before spending some time with EOS M.

4 upvotes
Juhaz
By Juhaz (5 months ago)

It will probably get it's mention when they get round to the "entry level mirrorless" part of the series.

Like every other camera whose main (and only, every one of these cameras gets the "adapted lenses" perk for free.) competitive advantage is being dirt cheap.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Or larger than typical M4/3 sensor, perhaps?

0 upvotes
Juhaz
By Juhaz (5 months ago)

Larger than the typical M43 sensor in NEX-3's or A3000 or NX1000-series? Oh, wait...

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Pardon my ignorance but I was referring to size of typical M4/3 sensor which is about 65% smaller than APS-c sensor.

1 upvote
Juhaz
By Juhaz (5 months ago)

Yes, I got what you were referring to. I just did not get WHY you were referring to them - and only them - it since there are other APS-C sized competitors in the entry level category as well.

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Simple: the two winners of the round up were M4/3 cams.
I'm not privy to know the line up in entry level category. Are you?
Maybe I've missed something? can you elaborate on your statement?

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Entry level category = "Moving on up" segment. This is my understanding of your reference of the term "entry level category".
Just to make sure that we are on the same page.

0 upvotes
Richard Butler
By Richard Butler (5 months ago)

The EOS-M would have been in the 'Moving on up' segment if we believed it was still a current model (and the conclusion would be 'great interface but disappointing focus performance').

However, the incredibly cheap deals on the camera strongly suggest its an end-of-life model, so there's no point including it in a roundup that we hope will be relevant few the next few months.

0 upvotes
Astrotripper
By Astrotripper (5 months ago)

Sensor in EOS M might be larger than M43, but it still lags behind current gen M43 sensors in performance. So if you are willing to trade a bit of image quality (not to mention other things) for a bit of more bokeh, than yeah, the sensor in EOS M might be considered an advantage.

And like Juhaz wrote, EOS M can't really be considered anything other than an entry-level camera, so no wonder it didn't make it into this list.

3 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (5 months ago)

A friend of mine bought an M cheap and has taken some phenomenal shots with it. I don't understand how this little gem has been overlooked!

1 upvote
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Richard,
I certainly understand most of your reasoning, except that the camera even at dirt cheep prices should be considered completely irrelevant. It is still selling and in greater numbers than ever before.
Some of the actual users experiences with the cam are very positive if you look at the EOS M forum.
I see no reason (except commercial) that this cam should best be forgotten as long as it is still available for purchase.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Alien from Mars
By Alien from Mars (5 months ago)

>By Richard Franiec (5 hours ago)
>Pardon my ignorance but I was referring to size of typical M4/3
>sensor which is about 65% smaller than APS-c sensor.
Someone should refresh his math skills

0 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

That would be me.
65% of not 65% smaller than m4/3 sensor. Thank you for catching that.

0 upvotes
barryhk
By barryhk (5 months ago)

I own a EOS-M and I like it very much. If EOS-M is to be included in the "entry level mirrorless", it will be miles ahead of the runner-up. :)

1 upvote
AndyGM
By AndyGM (5 months ago)

I think it's right that the EOS-M has been left out. Canon seem to be treating it as an expensive mistake they'd rather forget. The point that it can use EF/EF-S lenses is moot, the NEX cameras can use Alpha lenses, the m43 cameras can use Oly E-System Zuiko lenses, yes, all with adapters. Not that you'd really want to - all these DSLR lenses are badly unbalanced on the various mirrorless systems.

So the EOS-M has just 3 native lenses with no sign of any more (less than m43, or NEX, or NX, or XMount, or Nik1), and even after the firmware update, still focuses slowest of all of them. Oh, and is between Nik1 and m43 for noise and DR.

Yeah, what an absolute bargain!

2 upvotes
Richard Franiec
By Richard Franiec (5 months ago)

Please, allow me to disagree.
The point that M can use EF/EF-S is not moot at all. There is no better (compact) companion for Canon DSLR sharing the same lenses than EOS M. Of course, Nex can use Alpha lenses but will it produce better images than EOS M with EF-S 60, EF100L, EF24-70MkII and most of best L lenses? I have a few of these and M seems to be the logical choice over other offerings. For Sony users, most likely not so. I agree about unbalance with really large and heavy lenses but in each case of such compatibility user have to adjust to such combination. It is good that the option exists.
Yeah, what a bargain it is.

1 upvote
mrdancer
By mrdancer (5 months ago)

I continue to be impressed by the low-light capabilities of the GX7. I shot some test photos of the waning moon (five days post-full moon) the other night. Using the 45-175 zoom lens, at 175mm (350mm equiv.), at f22 the best shot came at 2.5sec exposure, yet I could still see the moon at 1/10sec shutter speed. On the flip side, still at 175mm, but f5.6, I could still see the moon on photos shot at 1/1000sec. Not too bad for a MFT mid-range long-end zoom lens!

1 upvote
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

why on Earth .. Pany stopped manufacturing multi-aspect sensors .. like in glorious GH1 and GH2 times!!

2 upvotes
pixelcollector
By pixelcollector (5 months ago)

the E-P5 is the direct competitor of the GX-7. Why in the world wasn't it included?

1 upvote
greenarcher02
By greenarcher02 (5 months ago)

They probably deem it a tad lower than the E-M5? Which is included here. But I'm confused as well, since the G6 was included too.

0 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (5 months ago)

E-P5 has absolutely no serious advantages over E-M5, while costing more today. Integrated EVF and weather-sealing are so much more important than 1/8000 shutter and WiFi.

5 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

well instead of e-p5, I could argue over em1. add vf to ep-5 and see where its price goes .. the only value it got is wifi!

0 upvotes
pixelpushing
By pixelpushing (5 months ago)

I can't help but think the NX300 deserves a second look, here.

We have two ends of the decidedly non-compact Micro 4/3 model spectrum: Pricey, loaded and fiddly (E-M5) and steeply-discounted mixed reception Panasonic plastic-fantastic (G6). Meanwhile, the NX300 gets marked down for lack of external controls but no credit for a 3.3" touchscreen, and the fact that it has a very competent 20MP APS-C sensor with excellent RAW performance (and despite what was said here, a vastly improved JPEG engine over prior NX models) in one of the smallest cameras in the collection...apparently isn't enough, coupled with solid build, Samsung Galaxy WiFi NFC control/integration and a street price under $600 with an OIS lens..??

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

what else? tell more about it ..

0 upvotes
Bron
By Bron (5 months ago)

Agreed. I'm a big Oly and Panny fan, but have recently been using some of the Samsung cameras and am now very enthusiastic about their line. The Nx1000/1100 is one of the best values around. The NX300 did not, indeed, get much love here. The APS-C sensor is very good, the iFN control is awesome, I love it. The lenses are very good (and they have a decent line at modest prices that really deliver quality and value). The NX300 has been tweaked and including Lightroom 4 is a big plus if you want to shoot raw. Personally, I have not had any complaints about the JPEGs, but I shoot mostly landscapes, not as much indoors at high ISO's. Still, more of a quiblle, I think. For me, it's the sensor, lens, handling and value combo that make this line a winner. The fact that it also makes for a fairly compact kit is another plus.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
2 upvotes
pixelpushing
By pixelpushing (5 months ago)

I don't even bother with iFn myself, but it's nice to have the option. My NX100 and NX200 had plenty of controls, and the NX300 seems no different.

JPEGs used to be the Achilles Heel. Machine/pattern like noise (almost like there was a cloning function happening that repeated noise spots diagonally or something) at higher ISO. Base ISO JPEG was perfectly good.

0 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

So the winning camera has:

- POOR video (just like you rated the E-P5 video)

- DODGY image stability (a percentage of E-M5 owners report the same 'shutter shock' issue that you were so unhappy with in your review of the E-P5)

- NO INBUILT FLASH (!)

- an INADEQUATE GRIP, that necessitates the purchase of tacky third party add-on grips or a large and expensive Vertical Grip that renders the camera NOT SMALL AT ALL

- baby dSLR design that sports an unnecessary, illogical and widely criticized 'prism hump', which makes the camera bigger than it needs to be, and results in a form factor that suits nobody but dSLR wannabees; and....

- antiquated non-connectivity to the owner's online presence (a big issue for pros and semi pros, and even the general modern person).

Given that you could have chosen at least one camera with none of these faults and flaws, I'm speechless.....

13 upvotes
Pythagoras
By Pythagoras (5 months ago)

i don't know about all the points you made but i agree about the way the em5 looks with that prism hump--hate it--and it does make the camera really less portable. the grip is also terrible... if you're going to ruin the vertical dimension with that prism why not a few mm onto the grip so it actually does its job?

5 upvotes
Entropius
By Entropius (5 months ago)

Have you ever shot with an E-M5?

I don't own one (I shoot Nikon), but I've used it, and it's fantastic. The hump is necessary -- the viewfinder electronics and IBIS-related accelerometers live in there. Who cares what it looks like, anyway? I want pretty prints, not a pretty camera. The "shutter shock" issue is blown out of proportion. There's a flash included which does basically the same as a built-in flash, or you can use a real flash. The video is fine -- if you want absolutely top end video get a GHx, but the E-M5 video is still very high quality. Holding the thing is fine.

And the lenses -- especially the sort that make sense on a camera of this size -- are great.

15 upvotes
ianp5a
By ianp5a (5 months ago)

'All' the cameras here have a list of weak points. Not just the EM5. They picked it as a winner because they wanted to tell people what a great shooter it is.
And the hump is very necessary. But all cameras from all brands with a big usable EVF have a hump, or bulk up the whole body like the Fujifilm. There is no need to pretend it is not there. Personally I'd prefer a body without the hump for size reasons. But that EVF is too good to miss.Nobody criticises DSLRs for having a hump. Get over the hump!

5 upvotes
peevee1
By peevee1 (5 months ago)

Video is totally adequate (20 mbps is not poor at all, and having MORE is just a processing and storage problem).
Image stabilization is absolutely the best in business (including for video).
There is flash supplied with the camera - clip it on and call it "in built" if you want - but it is still removable when you want bigger flash, unlike those unremovable ones.
Grip is perfect for compact camera hold (when you cradle it in the base of the palm instead of gripping with your fingers like DSLR - it is NOT a DSLR).
The design was popular and causes plenty of smiles and thumbs-ups on the streets (no wonder Sony and Nikon copied it in A7, A7r and Df).
"Non-connectivity" can easily be fixed by an EyeFi card. Not that you really going to use WiFi control from a phone in one hand while holding the camera in another. And picture transfer through SD card and ESB3 reader is much faster.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

Lots of EM5 apologists predictably leap to its defence. Get real boys, it already won the recommendation, no need to pretend it's perfect!

@ianp5a, LOTS of people criticize the hump of a DSLR, and HEAPS criticized the EM5 form factor when it was released, for unnecessarily copying it when there is no longer any prism! That's Retro Mania gone mad!

@Entropius, the hump is NOT necessary: the EVF electronics can go anywhere, and the E-P5 has IBIS without a hump. You haven't thought this through.

@peevee1, calling the video 'totally adequate' puts you at odds with dpreview and reviewers all round the world, best summarized as 'usable but second rate'. Your defence of the clip-on flash is like defending the E-P5 clip-on EVF as better than the EM5's in-built one! As for an eye-fi card fixing connectivity... OMG! You are seriously trying too hard, it shows! :)

Apologists not accepted! :)

0 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

And while IBIS is a flagship IS product, so far the majority of bodies fitted with it have a range of 'shutter shock' issues raised by owners, unresolved, and while I won't definitively point the finger at IBIS, I will confidently say that there is an image stability issue that the EM5 is not exempt from. And THAT is an issue, stop trying to paper over the cracks boys.

And don’t pretend IBIS beats in-lens OIS. Going in-lens OIS allows bespoke IS design for each lens and its unique character, whereas IBIS is at best a generalized, averaging way of going about the job. Thus far I think I would prefer a firmly supported sensor than the way Olympus are struggling with their overall image stability at the moment.

0 upvotes
Marty4650
By Marty4650 (5 months ago)

But where is the EVF on an EP5?

That's right. You have to spend $200 more to slap a VF4 on the hotshoe.

And now you have a pretty ugly camera that has a "hump" too....

0 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

@Marty, look at the GX7, or the X-E2....

0 upvotes
benmlee
By benmlee (5 months ago)

Here is a summary on size of mirrorless with a one to one comparison.
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3539258?page=8#forum-post-52104024
In summary, lens for mirrorless weight about the same for DSLR if you compare sensor size to sensor size. The only advantage you get with mirrorless is smaller body. However, because the camera use battery much faster, you will have to carry an extra battery. The net gain may not be as much as you think in the showroom.
What about these tiny M4/3 mirrorless. Well, the small size is not because it is a mirrorless, but because the sensor is small. You are not getting something for nothing. You do get the disadvantage of smaller sensor. Whether smaller sensor is enough or not is a different question.

0 upvotes
Vinc T
By Vinc T (5 months ago)

The green line of your graph does show the significant weight advantage of m4/3 over APS and Full Frame cameras.

2 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

Compare the Olympus Four Thirds lenses with their Micro Four Thirds lenses. (They are same sensor size).

They are not completely like with like, but just try assembling a kit with each format. You will soon notice that the mirrorless kit, lenses plus body, is much, much lighter and smaller.

The lesson is that your chart does not represent reality, because in reality the manufacturers are treating m43 as a lightweight format and designing lenses (and choosing what models to produce) so that the consumer DOES have a significant reward in small and light. The lenses are deliberately not identical equivalents of the DSLR range.

So I think your claim is wrong. You get a significant size and weight advantage by going mirrorless. Like a smart pro, you need to buy kit to suit the concept, not get stuck in rigid thinking by trying to 'mirror' a DSLR kit to your own disadvantage.

1 upvote
wombat661
By wombat661 (5 months ago)

Both of you are talking about M4/3. There is absolutely no doubt M4/3 is smaller than full frame or APSC. Obviously, the sensor is smaller, so everything are lighter.

Take the Sony NEX mirrorless camera with the larger APSC sensor, and your kit is not going to be that much lighter.

0 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

wombat, you totally misread my comment. I am comparing m43 with 43. That is same sensor size! Yet still the size difference is obvious

0 upvotes
benmlee
By benmlee (5 months ago)

TN Args,
Still not seeing it even comparing M4/3 with 4/3. The one that is a direct 1:1 comparison is Panasonic M4/3 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 weights 580g. Equivalent Panasonic 4/3 14-150mm F3.5-5.6 weights 535g. These two are exactly the same weight. You can even argue that 4/3 was even slightly lighter than the M4/3.

As the chart suggested, mirror or mirrorless is not where the difference is. Size of the sensor dictates lens size.

Now if you are talking about specific prime lens like wide angle primes, then mirrorless has an advantage there while with longer prime lens like 50mm mirror camera has the weight advantage.

From my findings, the advantage is still really not that great.

0 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (4 months ago)

benmlee, are you deliberately misleading? The m43 14-140mm Panasonic weighs 265g.

That is a massive difference, thanks for proving me right.

See http://www.dpreview.com/products/panasonic/lenses/panasonic_14-140_3p5-5p6

You must be quoting some old model where they mainly changed the mount on a 43 lens and called it m43.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
mrcultureshock
By mrcultureshock (5 months ago)

I rented the GX7 for the Thanksgiving break and I find the EVF on the small side but I'm getting used to it. I didn't see any tearing or rainbow effects though. The photo and video qualities are excellent!

9 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

thanks this really helps!! as am considering to buy this little gem seriously!!! could you please recommend from where you rented it?

0 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

G6 is small??

3 upvotes
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (5 months ago)

It is smaller than SL1 or D3200 or 1100D. Not by much, but with m43 lens mounted it is much smaller than the APS-C counterparts.

http://camerasize.com/compact/#455.3,448.377,317.36,98.23,ha,t

To the audience Panny tries to appeal to, overly small size is generally considered to be downside, as it makes camera unbalanced with larger/longer lenses. Why I personally welcome slight size increase (modulo the GM1) of the newer Panny cameras.

1 upvote
Mimik
By Mimik (5 months ago)

Mmmmm Eos M.

4 upvotes
KariIceland
By KariIceland (5 months ago)

Ewwww

12 upvotes
Alastair Norcross
By Alastair Norcross (5 months ago)

So you've never used one.

2 upvotes
Jerodequin
By Jerodequin (5 months ago)

Hello DPReview - could you please explain what 'Poor Program Line' means in the cons for the GX7? Thanks!

4 upvotes
Jeff Keller
By Jeff Keller (5 months ago)

As mentioned in our full review (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx7/9), when shooting in Program or Auto mode(s), the GX7 will stop down the aperture to the point where diffraction comes into play, rather than increase the shutter speed.

7 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

yes Jeff .. but since when Program and auto modes are so important in serious cams. I never used them in last 10 years of photography including last 4 years with GH1 alone. Aperture priority and set Auto ISO or intelli-ISO. I won't call this issue a consideration if am buying GX7.

6 upvotes
Jeff Keller
By Jeff Keller (5 months ago)

There are plenty of people (read: people other than the core DPR audience) who will shoot in Program or Auto mode. Also, since this is an unusual issue, it's worth pointing out.

8 upvotes
TN Args
By TN Args (5 months ago)

So you wrote it for your non-readers? :)

Although I admit, it is not what the user would expect, so worth a mention.

3 upvotes
Pythagoras
By Pythagoras (5 months ago)

this article will get reposted on websites where people who have never even heard of dpreview will give it a click because it's a holiday shopping guide.

0 upvotes
ianp5a
By ianp5a (5 months ago)

Program mode is great for people who shoot a variety of types scenes when out. Maybe not interesting for people who 'always use aperture priority'. I use naked program mode for many shots where no specific aperture or shutter speed would help. Program picks a sensible setting. However the range of pictures is expanded when using 'Program Shift'. A roll of the wheel and you've got your chosen setting. No changing modes needed. You are effectively changing the 'program line'. Want to stick with that setting for longer, then switch to aperture priority. I want to react quickly when out rather than try to guess what is around the next corner.

1 upvote
Steve Bingham
By Steve Bingham (5 months ago)

Using YOUR test results I see that the Fuji X-E2 clearly out resolves all the competitors. As for the greens in ACR 8.3 . . . look again. Go take some landscapes in the country. Be careful how you use ACR. The "defaults" are not the best for X cameras.

You are a little behind in your X-E2 evaluation. Actually, that's another way of saying you are incorrect.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
RichRMA
By RichRMA (5 months ago)

Are grass and plants a different green in the country than the city?

Comment edited 18 seconds after posting
1 upvote
EdVT
By EdVT (4 months ago)

The answer is a resounding YES all plants and hundreds of types of grasses are are all different hues of green so you can not judge by a little green difference, No way! The X E2 (and X E1) are best in color!
Ed

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
rondhamalam
By rondhamalam (5 months ago)

Seriously Small....

that's more like it

1 upvote
WhyNot
By WhyNot (5 months ago)

“By removing the mirror and optical viewfinder, manufacturers are able to make their cameras smaller, without compromising ergonomics, … “ ???? I'd like to suggest that unless you spend all your time on a tripod or using a camera as a computer that by keeping, and sometime increasing, the number of controls found on a DSLR that these smaller cameras do compromise ergonomics.... I own three mFT bodies (which I do like for many reasons) and find that too often when I'm shooting I find myself looking at a menu in the viewfinder or finding that a parameter has been unintentionally changed to my chagrin …. Even you write about the G6 that you don't like the “Tight controls and small buttons “ this is to me what ergonomics is mostly about..... These companies need to rethink the control and operations layout for these cameras or let the body fit the functions it was made for or specify hand size like they do for gloves... Well maybe I go too far....

1 upvote
le_alain
By le_alain (5 months ago)

Look at Rollei 35, it's a perfect camera :)
no need to be bigger for a FF Camera (this one has to deal with both side of the 135 cartidge, take one side for battery as on R-D1, the otherr for some electronics)

I don't care 1s of a LCD on the back, give a good OVF, and informations with Knobs and/or overlay like in the Fuji X20 !

3 upvotes
Le Frog
By Le Frog (5 months ago)

Technically, the Rollei35 belongs to a different category, since it is not an ILS camera. But it is a living and legendary proof that there is plenty of room for full and fully ergonomic manual controls in a really small body, without even taking into account the space available (for screen, dials and buttons) at the back of the camera. And, if you cannot live with a back screen alone, there is enough room for both a smaller screen AND an EVF (or hybrid evf/ovf) to overcome the rangefinder limitations, when you want to use longer focal lengths.
But this is not an objection to the DP evaluation, only to rants of the "big is beautiful" brigade, and the industry excuses for omitting manual controls from small cameras.

0 upvotes
yslee1
By yslee1 (5 months ago)

Seriously, Rollei 35? I hated using those things back then, can't believe they're any better now.

0 upvotes
ianp5a
By ianp5a (5 months ago)

True. Some mirrorless cameras do compromise on ergonomics. But they don't have to. There are some weak points with the EM5 (bracketing, mysets) but the later EP5 and EM1 show it can be done well.

0 upvotes
Olymore
By Olymore (5 months ago)

I own a Rollei 35 and think it is the fiddliest, most unergonomic camera I have ever used.

1 upvote
le_alain
By le_alain (5 months ago)

Ok, But it's a small but serious mid*level mirrorless camera :)

for those who don't like rollei 35, there are other small pockettable, Minox 35 for instance (very good, but not as beautifull, nor solid than the Rollei),
or a lovely Retina IIa :)
The point is that FF is not the limit of the body, it's just 24x36mm, and than control or framing with somethingelse than a LCD
;)

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
KTClown
By KTClown (5 months ago)

Small, but Serious.
The PL5 should be on the list. Same sensor as the more expensive EM5 & EM1, add the view finder and it's a good all around shooter.
My opinion.

6 upvotes
Lab D
By Lab D (5 months ago)

I am with you here. The E-M5 is not that small.

2 upvotes
Vinc T
By Vinc T (5 months ago)

The E-PL5 may well be the winner of Entry-Level Mirrorless Camers, especially that it is now selling at $449 (e.g. Canada Henry's).

1 upvote
Jeff Keller
By Jeff Keller (5 months ago)

I believe the E-PL5 is in one of the future articles.

2 upvotes
charliewallace1
By charliewallace1 (5 months ago)

I can see calling the E-PL5 "entry level", even tho it's the same sensor and processing as the E-M5... but what about the E-P5? It's small but I think should have been in this mid-range group; feature set compares well with the E-M5, and when equipped with the VF4 viewfinder, the display resolution beats the E-M5.

1 upvote
Le Frog
By Le Frog (5 months ago)

More than half the cameras in this group are the same size and weight as the film SLRs and rangefinders, that some of us are old enough to remember (and to have used extensively). Is this the new definition of "small" or is it just an euphemism?
The NEX-5T does not seem to have more manual controls than cameras that will probably be classified as "entry level", such as the GM1 (which, at least, seems to have well thought out touchscreen controls) and the PL5 (which benefits from in-body stabilization). The NEX-6 and the Samsung do have an extra dial (and the NEX also has an EVF), but of course can't compare with the GX7 the EM5 or the XE2 in terms of manual controls. Is this the new definition of "serious"?
The XE-2 is probably a better proposition than the PRO-1, which was classified as "a cut above".
Lens-wise the NEX and the Samsung hardly qualify as system cameras
I know that there is no such thing as an obvious and clear-cut classification, but this is too much of a mixed bag.

0 upvotes
yslee1
By yslee1 (5 months ago)

I don't understand. Why can't the Sony and Samsung compare? Both cameras have the usual PASM modes, have at least one command dial (two in the NEX 6). So what more do they need? Heck, both have dedicated ISO buttons right off the bat, unlike the Fujifilm (Fn button by default) or the Olympus (quick-menu by default)

1 upvote
pixelpushing
By pixelpushing (5 months ago)

The NX300 also has a control focus-like ring on the lens for additional assignable control during shooting. Unless you compare to a $1000+ camera with dual thumb wheels, all these cameras have roughly the same level of control. And if you're going to say NEX and Samsung 'hardly qualify' as lens systems, then how about all the redundancies and super high prices in the m43 realm?

As for size, how small do you want? The NX300 is quite diminutive, but at some point you get diminishing returns in an ILC. You need room for a mount and a lens big enough to deal with APS-C. If you want smaller, get an RX100. Pretty much your only alternative.

3 upvotes
Bron
By Bron (5 months ago)

And the NX300 has some touch-control options as well.

1 upvote
Pinz
By Pinz (3 months ago)

What manual controls are you referring to? Tone curve? Or do you just mean that the manual controls are easier/faster to get to on the GX7? I find the NEX-5R has all the manual controls I would ever need. True, some aren't as fast or easy to get to, that's where the NEX-6 would shine because of its extra control dial. After customizing and the 2nd control dial you would be able to control most settings very quickly. And we're comparing a camera that can be easily found for $599 or less to one that retails for $899. We should be comparing it to the NEX-7, although its successor should be out quite soon.

0 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (5 months ago)

NEX-7 or Fuji X-E2 if any.

2 upvotes
davids8560
By davids8560 (5 months ago)

What would you say is the best mirrorless camera for action/fast subjects using focus tracking/continuous AF? I have the impression that none of them are by DSLR standards, but even so, which is the best performer in this regard, all things considered and not being equal?

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
bluevellet
By bluevellet (5 months ago)

Unfoprtunately, that is a weakness for mirrorless cameras. However the Olympus OMD EM1 is the closest thing to a sports camera as you can get in the mirrorless world:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympus-om-d-e-m1/8

It could be fast and accurate enough for you.

5 upvotes
davids8560
By davids8560 (5 months ago)

...From DPR OMD-EM1 Review Conclusion:

"Not So Good For: Sports and fast action demanding very fast burst rates."

But the reviewer also concludes that the OMD-EM1 has "blazingly fast autofocus with native lenses."

So maybe the OMD-M1 is the best for single-shot action shots?

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
LucidStrike
By LucidStrike (5 months ago)

They say mirrorless cameras aren't very good at tracking autofocus, but this great parkour video was apparently shot with the GH2's autofocus: http://www.newsshooter.com/2011/06/20/free-running-with-the-panasonic-gh2-frank-sauer-shoots-the-fast-moving-sport-using-autofocus/

1 upvote
Stephen Scharf
By Stephen Scharf (5 months ago)

All I can say is that I've used my Fuji X-Pro1 on continuous focus at 6 FPS and produced excellent images shooting either professional NHRA drag racing or IRL open-wheel pit lane action:

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/nhra2013/large/Nobile.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/irlsonoma2013/websize/Power%20Box%20Entry.jpg

One out of six frames of an Indy Car quickly entering the pits:
http://photos.imageevent.com/puma_cat/irlsonoma2013/websize/HP%20Pit%20Entry-1.jpg

3 upvotes
aandeg
By aandeg (5 months ago)

Link is broken for the Raw download xe-2

0 upvotes
Jeff Keller
By Jeff Keller (5 months ago)

can you be more specific?

0 upvotes
aandeg
By aandeg (5 months ago)

This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
<Error><Code>NoSuchKey</Code><Message>The specified key does not exist.</Message><Key>image_comparison/studio/8abf6ed4ad474654855a1d8c1ff55882.raf</Key><RequestId>7FB7B9A6170E6F31</RequestId><HostId>aRXN9PKQtKOls0TiCE2dKp7SxUbSwAS25s8c9Fxf06mP/u9pYmbuuTXrHUHmZcBe</HostId></Error>

I get an error both in IE and Firefiox when clicking the raw file download studio scene compare.

0 upvotes
tkbslc
By tkbslc (5 months ago)

Seems odd that the two cameras recommended are the most DSLR-like options.

4 upvotes
reginalddwight
By reginalddwight (5 months ago)

So much for small, but serious.

3 upvotes
The Jacal
By The Jacal (5 months ago)

Yeah, because the EM-5 is SOOOO big.

7 upvotes
aandeg
By aandeg (5 months ago)

The biggest camera won the small and serious class.

15 upvotes
greenarcher02
By greenarcher02 (5 months ago)

@The Jacal
Still bigger than my GX7, and the GX7 only lacks in weather sealing.

0 upvotes
Raist3d
By Raist3d (5 months ago)

" The X-Trans design struggles a little bit with fine green detail, so it's not perfect for landscape work," - I hate to say this but this makes no sense.

In fact, fine green detail is an Xtrans better case than regular Bayer because it has more, not less, green photo sites. Landscape photography is actually an Xtrans photography domain best case (you use typically more green than blue/red and you don't care too much of super details in a blue sky because um... it's blue and clouds usually).

The problem is not using an optimal raw converter. Yes, if you use anything adobe, you will get sub par (that doesn't mean bad) results to better RAW converter options for Xtrans. Whenever Adobe steps up their game here, that changes, but this is not "inherent to the Xtrans design."

Comment edited 27 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
pixelpushing
By pixelpushing (5 months ago)

Fuji owners themselves have been talking about green issues with X-Trans vs Bayer: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3572308

0 upvotes
dmstraton
By dmstraton (5 months ago)

Probably because of ACR or Lightroom - which are not great with Xtrans. Capture One is good, but can show some issues. Using Photoninja or Irident, greens are awesome - Photoninja is especially good.

0 upvotes
Kiril Karaatanasov
By Kiril Karaatanasov (5 months ago)

This is non-sense. Very subjective choice and a poor one!

E-M5 is 2 years old!!!! It is also the same price as NEX-7 thus way overpriced compared to NEX-6 for example.

It seems GX7 purposely got demoted altough it is better than E-M5 in just about everything.

NEX-7 was excluded. Why? Because it is better at everything and DPR rated it higher than E-M5, so no way E-M5 could be rated tops? Is it because Sony are not advertising here enough?

As well any APS camera gives much more creative control than any m43. This is just a sad fact Olympus got it wrong. No need to praise them for that oversight. It would be fair to say all m43 have limited IQ and limited creativity options. Than you can start comparing apples to oranges.

What is X-e2 worse at compared to the melenium old E-M5?

Comment edited 4 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
16 upvotes
smorti
By smorti (5 months ago)

Silly. A camera does not get worse over time; normally others appear which are more refined. Clearly, in the opinion of the reviewer, this has not been the case here.

Also, it is clearly incorrect that "any APS camera gives much more creative control than any m43". It depends on the lens as to the depth of field and the sensor technology as to high gain noise as well as many other factors.

I'm glad DPReview made a 'subjective choice' - I or anyone else can easily make an 'objective' choice from the specs list... The difference is, they've handled and used the cameras for a long time and I (we?) haven't.

2 upvotes
Cameracist
By Cameracist (5 months ago)

Where is the EOS-M? :-D

4 upvotes
HaroldC3
By HaroldC3 (5 months ago)

I would expect to see the EOS M in the entry-level category.

1 upvote
Alastair Norcross
By Alastair Norcross (5 months ago)

It's certainly entry-level price right now. However, in image quality, it's the best you can get under full frame. For $300, the M with 22mm F2 pancake lens gives far higher quality than combinations more than twice the price.

4 upvotes
HaroldC3
By HaroldC3 (5 months ago)

Agreed and that's one of the reasons why the lines between entry and mid-range are pretty blurry.

1 upvote
itsastickup
By itsastickup (5 months ago)

"pro level X-Pro1"

hmmm, I don't think that's right. Except for the lack of phase focusing, the x-pro 1 fits this category better.

It doesn't have RGB histogram (which it desperately needs due to red-channel blow-out issues), only a +-2 EV, off-center tripod, and the flaw of a very weak hotshoe.

0 upvotes
charliewallace1
By charliewallace1 (5 months ago)

If you like the Olympus E-M5 but want something smaller, you can get the same sensor and processing in the E-P5 or the E-PL5, and for less - I'm surprised these models were not included. If you add the VF4 electronic viewfinder to an E-PL5 you can get the same viewfinder quality as the E-M1, better resolution than the E-M5, and less expensive. It's smaller overall, but the portabilty can be taken a step futher by carrying the lens separately from the body - it just takes a moment to reassemble - and the display also comes off. You can carry the camera body in a pocket easily if the lens is removed... and voila, no camera bag! All you need is a lot of pockets.

1 upvote
devilz666
By devilz666 (5 months ago)

It says mid range, PL5 / PM2 are more like entry level.

1 upvote
Kiril Karaatanasov
By Kiril Karaatanasov (5 months ago)

I do not see how NEX-5 is higher class than E-PL...they are jsut about the same....tyhe review is super subjective.

They like E-M5 and this had to be the winner bar any other cameras even from Olympus.

1 upvote
Shandi76
By Shandi76 (5 months ago)

I'm also surprised they didn't include the E-PL5 on the list. It's got the same sensor as their top rated camera and is much smaller, lighter, and cheaper.

Comment edited 10 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Naveed Akhtar
By Naveed Akhtar (5 months ago)

E-PL5 is not serious enough .. but I also feel E-P5 in the list instead of E-M5 no matter how good it was in 2012!

0 upvotes
Total comments: 209
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