Fujifilm X10 'Orbs' Investigated. Does the Firmware Fix Work?

It didn't take long once samples of the Fujifilm X10 were out in the wild for reports to start surfacing of a strange and unwelcome phenomenon in images taken in certain conditions. Colloquially known as 'white orbs' or 'white discs' the problem describes the peculiar circular, hard-edged appearance of clipped specular highlights in images taken on the X10. The effect is unpredictable, but virtually unavoidable in some situations (low light cityscapes for example) and impossible to ignore once you notice it. The table below shows what we're talking about - this is the same scene, shot at identical settings. The Fujifilm X10 is on the left, and the Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 (one of many examples we could have used here) is on the right. 

Fujifilm X10, ISO 100, f/5 0.8sec  Panasonic LX5, ISO 100, f/5 0.8sec  

We mentioned this issue when we included the X10 in our pre-Christmas roundup of high-end enthusiast compact cameras, and have since reported on Fujifilm's announcement of an upcoming firmware release to address the problem. In the meantime we had no option but to put our in-depth review of the X10 on hold until the new firmware was available in case it made a significant difference to image quality.

As soon as the new firmware (version 1.03) became available a couple of weeks ago we loaded it up on our test camera and started shooting. Here's what we found.

The Tests

In our shooting with the X10, we had already established that white orbs aren't a problem in every single exposure. Far from it. In fact, depending on the sort of photography that you do, you may encounter the problem rarely, if ever. This is important to bear in mind, especially since the images you're about to see were shot in conditions specifically designed to highlight the issue. As such, these samples should not be regarded as representative of the X10's image quality in day-to-day use.

For the purposes of this exercise - to see whether firmware version 1.03 reduces or solves the orbs issue - we set up a controlled studio test. 

Studio Scene: ISO Sensitivity

There are two light sources in this scene - a pen-light, to provide a point reflection on the metal frame and balls in the Newton's cradle on the left, and a low-intensity tungsten bulb on the right, for light relief. 

We used one camera, and shot one set of images using firmware version 1.02 and then updated to firmware 1.03 and took another set. The camera was tripod-mounted, and white balance was set manually to 2800K.

The first set of images is a simple run up the X10's ISO sensitivity settings, from ISO 100-3200, at its full resolution of 12MP. DR was set to 100%. Images taken with the older firmware version 1.02 are on the left, and the new firmware is on the right. All other settings are identical. 

ISO 100, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 100, 12MP, firmware v.1.03
ISO 200, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 200, 12MP, firmware v.1.03
ISO 400, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 400, 12MP, firmware v.1.03 
ISO 800, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 800, 12MP, firmware v.1.03
ISO 1600, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 1600, 12MP, firmware v.1.03
ISO 3200, 12MP, firmware v.1.02 ISO 3200, 12MP, firmware v.1.03

As you can see, white discs are very obvious around point highlights in images shot with both the new and old firmware at ISO 100 and 200. As we move higher up the ISO scale the effect is reduced until by ISO 800 we wouldn't really consider it to be problematic. Highlights are blown, but lack the unpleasant hard edge which looks so artificial in lower ISO images. The new firmware appears to have little or no material effect on the appearance of the 'orbs' in this scene. 


Click here to read page 2 of our investigation into 'white orbs' with the Fujifilm X10

Comments

Total comments: 572
1234
Octane
By Octane (Feb 27, 2012)

There are more comments here than actual owners of the X10 :)

17 upvotes
Doug Frost
By Doug Frost (Feb 27, 2012)

LOL

0 upvotes
Dan4321
By Dan4321 (Feb 27, 2012)

Perhaps a sensor / hardware problem that can't be fixed short of a recall? If it could be fixed in software, it probably would have been done by now...

4 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Feb 27, 2012)

Fuji doesn't seem too interested in their reputation. Apart from the diminishing diehard blind love of their most ardent fans, this company has no reason or right to continue. There are better brands. Vote with your dollars.

14 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 27, 2012)

First of all, it's amazing that this camera got released without Fuji knowing about it. It makes you wonder about Fuji's testing procedures.

Secondly, if they did know about it, and considered it "acceptable", it makes you wonder what about Fuji's standards.

Thirdly, if Fuji knew about it, didn't think it was good, but decided to release it anyway in the hopes that people wouldn't notice the issue, it makes you wonder what Fuji thinks about their customers.

In all three cases, it doesn't reflect well on Fuji.

I happen to like Fuji very much. I was always a Fuji film shooter. But clearly, they are stumbling *badly* with the X10 sensor. And it's amazing that people are actually saying that it's just not a big deal to have a sensor perform in this manner because it's just a "fun" camera. Sadly, even "fun" cameras costing much less than the X10 don't exhibit this same white orbs issue.

Comment edited 54 seconds after posting
13 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Feb 27, 2012)

Hi everyone, this comment thread will be locked shortly - please head to the Fuj Talk forum to debate this issue further. Thanks!

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1012

3 upvotes
wymjym
By wymjym (Feb 27, 2012)

Well Barney,
I think it should be left open so that Fuji can more easily see just how many people are not happy with their 'support' for this X rated camera.

wj

3 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Feb 27, 2012)

I think they're only too aware...

10 upvotes
Bill3R
By Bill3R (Feb 27, 2012)

My God. With all the publicity the x10 has gotten, if Fuji truly fixed this problem, seems they would sell millions. Probably a new sensor from all that I've read. They have a real winner here except for the fatal flaw. I am ready to purchase when it's made right.

2 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Feb 27, 2012)

QUESTION TO THE TESTERS:

You say that the Orb effect DECREASES with INCREASING ISO settings. But could this SIMPLY be the result of you using FASTER SHUTTER SPEEDS at higher ISO levels?

For ANY GIVEN ISO setting, what is the effect of ADJUSTING SHUTTER/APERTURE settings to achieve the same exposure?

The REASON FOR ASKING, is that IF this is a hardware fault on the sensor, resulting from "leaking" charge, surely SLOWER SHUTTER SPEEDS would give the captured charge MORE TIME TO LEAK.

Brian

0 upvotes
ptox
By ptox (Feb 27, 2012)

Too annoying; didn't read.

10 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Feb 27, 2012)

Who is annoying? Who didn't read what? There is no mention of the words "shutter" or "soeed" anywhere in the DpReview article, and it seems to me this could be an important consideration.

Brian

0 upvotes
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 27, 2012)

Brian- I think that is true but we all know that !

- This is a "Firmware " comparison and what we hoped for was a difference ( improvement i.e. LACK OF ORBS ) between the two versions - v1.02 and v1.02 and what has been demonstrated is no matter what ISO - nothing has changed they are still bad images !
Please correct me if I have it wrong!
All the best !!

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes, I agree we've established the firmware doesn't help - my query with the TESTS is whether the ISO setting, per se, has any effect - rather than SHUTTER SPEED (not actually mentioned once), which (at a given aperture setting) would of course be inversely proportional to the ISO setting.

And yet, the TEST article asserts, several times, that ISO has a direct effect on the orbs. This is simply NOT a provable assertion unless the SHUTTER SPEED element has been independently tested (by changing the APERTURE/SHUTTER SPEED ratio at any ONE ISO setting.

Yes, all that X10 users probably want is a "fix" - but when DpReview conducts tests and makes assertions based on those tests, I think it incumbent on the testers to eliminate the variables in their "scientific" tests - and in this instance, one blazingly obvious one, has been ignored entirely!

To BARNEY BRITTON: please check this one out and let us know!

Brian

5 upvotes
rainman1978
By rainman1978 (Feb 27, 2012)

It really depends on what you shoot and your tolerance level for orbs.

It's definitely a goner for night shoot.

Those were some test shots take at ISO100 15secs.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11759864@N05/6759073711/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11759864@N05/6759074081/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11759864@N05/6759073947/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11759864@N05/6759074267/in/photostream

My point is why should I be accepting the flaw when clearly its Fujifilm's fault?

Wouldn't a sensor replacement sounds reasonable?

Anyway I applaud all ranters and DPR for making the threads alive, this should caution all unawared buyers to buy at their own risk.

8 upvotes
zodiacfml
By zodiacfml (Feb 27, 2012)

I knew this would happen for long exposures. So long Fuji..

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Now wait for someone to tell you that you must have Photoshopped them ;-)

3 upvotes
rainman1978
By rainman1978 (Feb 27, 2012)

Unfortunately the orbs look like bad photoshopping.

Nope, that will be like saying DPR making up the same story.

1 upvote
Ol Iver S
By Ol Iver S (Feb 27, 2012)

i could well live with orbs in such heavily overexposed pictures, they are way over the top! unfortunately "wds" does also appear in correct exposures - and that HAS to be fixed!

2 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

@GaryJP, no I can see that this posters photos are real, unlike some others I've seen;). The rest of the photos on his photo stream (including some night shots) look consistent with my experience (eg no orbs in daily use).

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 27, 2012)

>>>> 670 are added - and rightly so: FUJI X10orb repair needs, no matter how

2 upvotes
frelwa
By frelwa (Feb 27, 2012)

This is the 670th comment on this article already. Get a life, people!

0 upvotes
frelwa
By frelwa (Feb 27, 2012)

Recent X10 reviews:

http://www.digital-photography-school.com/fujifilm-x10-review

http://photographic-central.blogspot.com/2012/02/fujifilm-x10-review.html

http://danbaileyphoto.com/blog/fujifilm-x10-camera-full-review/

Win some, lose some. ;)

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

It's precisely because of irresponsible and incomplete reviews like some of those that we need forums like this.

And like DPReview.

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks photographic-central though. If you were posting that as a positive review, look again.

3 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

@Roland Karlsson not much benefit to me of posting here other than having spited an obviously organised online hate campaign about an issue I haven't found to impede real world use of the camera. I didn't say much about the obviously overblown Nex 5n clicking issue, even though I thought that was bunkum, but the spite and hate I saw on this thread made my blood boil.

I would encourage people to try the camera before they believe all the the rubbish posted here about it.

2 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Feb 27, 2012)

The last thing people should do is try this camera until Fuji fix it.

7 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Why? Because they might like it and realise this is a non issue?

0 upvotes
Marek07
By Marek07 (Feb 27, 2012)

I own the camera and use it in the 'REAL' world, I would definitely reconsider purchasing it, If I would have known about the outlined Orb issue's.

3 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 27, 2012)

There are strong evidences, from DPR review as well as sample photos and photos taken by people with their own X10 that the orbs is a real problem, even on a sunny day, if anything is reflecting the light (car, moto, Window, lake, etc.)

That should have been an annoyance on a $100 camera, a problem on a $200 camera, but it's definitely not acceptable on a $600 camera. At this price-level and given it's really expensive for some that bought it, an investment to do photography, it should be fixed or Fuji should reimburse buyers that have this problem.

Fuji do great cameras, and should do something ASAP. It's sad to have a so sexy camera, with strong features, to not be able to take basic pictures correctly!
(Topic closed on my side)

Comment edited 9 minutes after posting
13 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Feb 27, 2012)

I would encourage people NOT to buy it, i did and returned it after 3 days, the orb prolbem is a fault within the camera and i had orbs on day one. DO NOT BUY THE X10 AND THEREFORE ENCOURAGE THE SELLING OF FAULTY GOODS AT £400 + ITS PLAIN ROBBERY AND FUJI SHOULD BE ASHAMED.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
8 upvotes
CameraLabTester
By CameraLabTester (Feb 27, 2012)

Anybody like guess what's going to happen to the following in the future?

1. The FujiFilm X10 (aka X10rb)

2. FujiFilm cameras as a whole

3. FujiFilm stocks

4. Ranters and defenders on this thread

5. DPReviews' vigil on this topic (will they give up chasing this anomaly or keep up the pressure like in the Orbgate debacle?)

So shall we see...

.

2 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

The way I see it, the people ranting are the ones posting hundreds of times each month on the same topic like a broken record. It's almost as if they are employed to do it...

2 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 27, 2012)

Very good "X10rb" - great.
Said already, you hate or you love them. I love her anyway, the new cult-camera Fuji "X10orb"
in twenty years worth a fortune. . .

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Right now sgoldswo there are 30 posts "ranting" by you on this front page.

16 by hunter thompson

And 23 by me, including this one.

So who is paying YOU?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Gary, you've got me, I really work jointly for fujifilm and the CIA... Could it be that I simply see this as a waste of time perpetuated by people who for all I know work at the same marketing company for the same camera firm?

A lot of the posts by you and hunter were removed after I complained about them. Also, I don't have the time you and hunter do to spend all my day on the fuji forum ranting about the same issue. I can see from your profile that you've posted hundreds of times on this topic in a short space of time, so trying to suggest I am over the top for doing what you do all over DPR is ludicrous.

1 upvote
Roland Karlsson
By Roland Karlsson (Feb 27, 2012)

Hmmmm ... I wonder why you are arguing. The sensor is defective. There is no doubt about that.

OK - if you own the camera and want to use it in situations it can be used - fine. And even like it - fine. Even make orbs with it - fine.

But no one knowing about the orbs should buy it. And Fuji should not sell it. Its broken. If they tell its broken and lower the price substantially, then - OK, why not. But ... they dont. They even claim that they have released a firmware that fixes it. But we know ... its a lie.

So - I am quite amazed by those having apologies and bashing those that complaints. Whats in it for you?

10 upvotes
SergeyMS
By SergeyMS (Feb 27, 2012)

For my opinion, three is only one bad thing in this story: silence of FUJI. It reflects clearly Japanese mentality - not to speak about a problem. More clear, that this problem does not exist et all. I have about 60 cameras of different manufacturers, and absolutely sure, that X-10 is brilliant like Sigma DP or Leica X1. No doubt. All cameras have some pecularities caused by sensor, software and so on. We may consider its like deficiencies, but in this case no good cameras at all. For me this story is like iPhone 4 story (bad signal receiving in some conditions). All world still buys iPhones, despite this phone has this deficiency (or pecularity - for your taste).

4 upvotes
snake_b
By snake_b (Feb 27, 2012)

Looks like the X10 will also get killed by the upcoming nokia 808. How's 41MP downscaled to 5mp? Unlike Fuji's 6MP upscaled to 12?

0 upvotes
sarkozy
By sarkozy (Feb 27, 2012)

Except for the orbs, the X10 is just awesome. Here is a photo ISO 3200 low light freehand

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/6127154653/photos/1754792/d-ner_kl

0 upvotes
cgarrard
By cgarrard (Feb 27, 2012)

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

A rule I live by, but it seems that Fuji's X10 is indeed broke and needs fixing.

And not just the orbs, either.

0 upvotes
snake_b
By snake_b (Feb 27, 2012)

Max Metz appears to be trolling any and all references to the orb threads by posting that same line, even when it's not applicable.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Now we've got classics claiming the orb pictures are FAKED.

It really is a case of "buyer beware".

6 upvotes
snake_b
By snake_b (Feb 27, 2012)

Certainly, but there seems to be an atmosphere on this forum that it's for the manufacturers and not for the consumers. Thus you have people coming in and defending the manufacturer's turf, perhaps hoping they'll get a nice reward.

3 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

@GaryJP, no, I'm not claiming the issue is faked, but the photos you and hunter SThompson have been posting have been questionable.

Personally I question the motives (and the employer) of anyone who posts hundreds of times a month on the same topic.

0 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 27, 2012)

You had posted hundreds of time a month, just to say that you didn't have this problem, so it doesn't exists. Also to claim that if it ever exists it's of no importance. And pretend that everyone claiming it exists might be lying, and presenting fake photos.

So, I question the motives (and the employer) of you, who posts hundreds of times a day on the same topic.

And I am probably not the only one. (Last message on this topic for me!)

4 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

I said you are claiming that the pictures are faked, and you have. Your posts are still here.

Question what you like sunshine. Someone used a week of her not so substantial salary to buy me this camera.

That's a week of someone's working life Fuji stole.

None of those photos came from us. They are all over the net. And it's desperate and paranoid to start claiming they're fake.

Comment edited 10 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 27, 2012)

Posting rules:

*No Bashing* - "Deliberately and repeatedly bashing the same brand, product or company will get you banned. If you have a complaint or comment to make then make it once and make sure you have facts to support it."

Surely this applies to the news threads as well, there are at least two people continually posting on this thread that qualify for a ban, even a warning might help. One of the two protagonists maintains a top posters vigil on the Fuji forum, averaging a score of 150 posts, every post echoing the same complaint about this Fujifilm camera.

Comment edited 38 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Max, discussion of a recognised issue with the camera, and frustration with denials of it, hardly constitutes bashing. Particularly as many of those most frustrated acknowledge that it has its strengths too.

Your attempts to silence this issue are looking stranger and stranger.

14 upvotes
max metz
By max metz (Feb 27, 2012)

Gary, you have an inalienable right to express your opinion, for me at least you can even reinforce that view at some length – maintaining an average of 150 posts on a single forum, all with the same complaint is a little beyond that, goodness knows how many extra you have posted in this thread.

You and at least one other are beyond the point where your view is just being expressed and or reinforced; you are interfering with the enjoyment of others. To describe your behaviour as a campaign would be generous.

0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Since @Hunter SThompson and @GaryJP are focused on the basic tenet of gonzo journalism and making themselves the story it is difficult to do other than bash them from time to time.

Gary, which camera was that photo of the bike from and what software did you or Hunter use to "enhance" it? It must have been one of you right? The pair of you did seem confused about where it came from though...

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Look for a thread called Harley Orbison. You'll find it.

6 upvotes
raztec
By raztec (Feb 27, 2012)

@HunterSThompson: While I agree with you 100% about holding Fuji accountable for their silence and not accepting a defective product, don't you think you've made your point on this issue quite clear? You're starting to sound like a broken record and dominating this topic.

I'm one of those who returned the X-10 but you have to realize that for many people it's not as important. Also, fanboyism and apologists are rampant on this forum and elsewhere because of the emotional attachment people make to inanimate objects and the justification they have to make to themselves for their purchase.

I think we ought to applaud DP Review for their article and simply wait for Fuji's response. I agree they've dug themselves a huge hole and it should be a lesson to any manufacturer that in the age of the internet you better come clean and communicate well. Their credibility has been severely damaged but with the right attitude and the right products they can bounce back. Let's wait and see.

5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Yes, but that's because he is part of an organised campaign. So he is never going to shut up until he is drowned out.

I don't applaud DPR, I just think the continuing stories on this topic are evidence of a damaging obsession on their part. I'm just fed up of a number of stories along these lines about so-called problems with cameras that have put people including me off them until I've had the chance to use them and then realised that the "problems" are very much mountains from molehills. It always seems to Cameras from brands other than Canon and Nikon too - I wonder why that is?

2 upvotes
raztec
By raztec (Feb 27, 2012)

@sgoldswo: Actually, DPR review ought to be applauded as well as the likes of Hunter SThompson, but the facts are all out now for everyone to judge for themselves. You, on the other hand, are a typical non-discerning consumer who the likes of Fuji rely on to sell cameras to. No amount of evidence will ever impart good taste or raise your standards. But to each his own.

3 upvotes
carsten böttcher
By carsten böttcher (Feb 27, 2012)

As I remembered "uncontrolled sensor blooming" is a CCD problem not CMOS. Dalsa talks about "CMOS generally has natural blooming immunity." So, why not comparing to Fujifilm X-S1 with the same sensor?

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

The X-S1 has the same problem.

3 upvotes
Scann3r
By Scann3r (Feb 27, 2012)

Same issue there. See 03:44 min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgNJ-gOOqxY&list=UUqpOf_Nl5F4tjwlxOVS6h8A&index=1&feature=plcp

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
BJN
By BJN (Feb 27, 2012)

Fuji's mistake here was not just saying that this is an inherent trait of the sensor and leaving it at that. Now that they've gone down the rabbit hole of suggesting that firmware could mitigate the sensor's bloom characteristics, Fuji has lost credibility (again). Whether or not you're happy with your X10, the sensor's performance and Fuji's perennially poor marketing and communications don't bode well for the launch of the X-Pro1. Fuji's sensor innovations have never been without tradeoffs. For many, those tradeoffs are worthwhile but buyers deserve to know what the tradeoffs are.

8 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 27, 2012)

The orbs are real and Fuji will have to address it somehow. I'm not defending anybody because unlike Mitt Romney, I don't believe companies (or cameras) are people. As someone who was on the receiving end of two photo equipment recalls I can tell you that no matter how angry people get the manufacturer has to deal with their attorneys, who are not in a hurry. One--If the problem is inherent in all EXR sensors, there is nothing to "fix" or replace because the problem is inherent in all the sensors. Two--If other models use a similar sensor, recalling one model will likely create an obligation to recall everything. Three--This also rules out giving credit towards another Fuji camera if all the better models have similar sensors. Four--Giving refunds is not a simple thing because the consumer didn't buy the camera directly from Fuji. I'm not an accountant but it's like reversing a transaction you never made in the first place. Plus different prices, taxes, duties, etc.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

"One--If the problem is inherent in all EXR sensors, there is nothing to "fix" or replace because the problem is inherent in all the sensors."

It isn't. Fuji's other EXR sensor cameras don't have it.

" Two--If other models use a similar sensor, recalling one model will likely create an obligation to recall everything.

TWO models do. They brought the second out after having been made well aware with the issues of the first. I'd say that's THEIR culpability.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

"Three--This also rules out giving credit towards another Fuji camera if all the better models have similar sensors."

Two models only. And it's rather their own fault they continued with that production after knowing the first one was screwed.

"Four--Giving refunds is not a simple thing because the consumer didn't buy the camera directly from Fuji."

Then make a working one, take the old one back into your service centres. Give people the new one. Cannibalise the old one to make refurbished ones with a working sensor. Other companies have fixed hardware faults. There's no reason Fuji can't.

4 upvotes
KevinD65
By KevinD65 (Feb 27, 2012)

Of course Fuji should address the issue, but I don't think they should hang their heads in shame. This is a great little camera and Fuji should be proud of it.

Is it defective? Well, depends how you look at it. No camera is perfect, just read dpreview's conclusions for any random camera. Every camera has flaws, be they build quality, mechanical failures, ergonomic issues, AF problems, color rendering, whatever. I remember when I bought my Nikon D200 and everyone was up in arms about the banding issue.

I bought the X10 because I wanted a camera that would fit comfortably in a belt holster for hiking, give me plenty of manual controls, and let me attach filters. I love the retro styling, the manual zoom ring, the way it feels in my hands, and for me the IQ is equal to or better than my D200 for like 1/10 of the size and weight. I'm not too worried about the orbs, and if I run into them I'll figure out a way of dealing with them.

3 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

The reason they should hang their head in shame is that all they have done publicly so far is laugh at users who don't want a flawed sensor.

Oh, and put the SAME flawed sensor in another model.

11 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 27, 2012)

Exactly Gary, This isn't about the X10 it is about Fuji selling defective sensors and making fun of their customers when they complained. Any other manufacture would never have used a sensor that handled specular highlights in this manor or laughed at customers when an issue like this came to light.

Fuji made a dud sensor but instead of scraping it, put it in one of the most expensive cameras in it's class. Then to try to hide it when people started noticing they made a joke out of their customers legitimate concerns about the quality of their product.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 14 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

Actually, The new Ferrari 458 Italia is notoriously famous for torching and starting burning itself up from the real wheel arch wall(Youtube or Google it!), but It's a Ferrari, its beautiful and Sexy like the X10...

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
KevinD65
By KevinD65 (Feb 27, 2012)

As for Fuji making fun of their customers, I don't know anything about that.

If I could find a $100 camera that gave me a high quality build, manual controls, ability to attach filters, took a remote cable release, had a manual zoom ring, shot in raw, had a good, fast lens with a wide aperture range throughout the whole zoom range, a decent OVF, and gave me a good alternative to a DSLR for a large majority of shooting situations, then I suppose I would buy it. But I couldn't find that camera, so I bought this one instead.

I don't think I'm apologizing for Fuji. I'm just saying you have to take in the totality of the situation when making a purchasing decision.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

What's the good of a remote cable release?

So you can put the camera on a tripod to take the long exposures that produce more orbs?

2 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

@Hunter SThompson. I think what is pathetic is people who continually post photos that look like they have been doctored to demonstrate this problem and who make personal attacks on OPs who disagree with you. Crazy as it may seem, maybe Kevin likes the X10.

I am very glad you are happy with the grainy, noisy mess your $100 camera, no doubt produces at night time. But since you are obviously part of an organised campaign I somehow doubt that statement like everything else you say.

0 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

Maybe the X10 shouldn't take photos that look like they've been doctored. If any of these photos WERE fake Fuji would have said by now. The situations in which you get the worse orbs are not only well-documented, they are also repeatable for yourself.

2 upvotes
meanwhile
By meanwhile (Feb 27, 2012)

What model number is the $100 camera you speak of?

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 27, 2012)

Look I get it. The X10 is a very cool camera. It has great retro styling and even better controls and features. If it didn't have a flawed sensor I would really really want one and it would be the best in it's class. But in the end this isn't even really about the X10. It is about Fuji knowingly selling a defective product and laughing at their customers all the way to the bank.

If you love the X10 the way it is fine but stop acting like those who expected a $600 camera to be defect free and to be treated with respect by Fuj don't have a legitimate complaint.

Comment edited 48 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
starwolfy
By starwolfy (Feb 27, 2012)

Just as the sticky aperture problem on X100...which affects around 35-45% of FujiX100 owners after 5000 pictures, Fuji just won't admit they've made something wrong and won't call back the cameras.

For that reason, I will not buy a X Pro1 nor this X10.

5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

But they have been repairing defective cameras upon request and the Serial numbers after 13N have redesigned aperture blades. I personally think that problem is much worse than this, but to me there is nothing wrong with the response.

1 upvote
f_stops
By f_stops (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks Fuji.
I cancelled my 3-lens and X-Pro1 orders. Don't want to be first in line for a new product with a company that does not accept responsibility.

16 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Hunter SThompson will be pleased as his intention in making all of this noise was to move up the X-Pro1 pre order queue...

0 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (Feb 27, 2012)

With today's technology, it's amazing to me that a problem like this even exists.

5 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 26, 2012)

Even if you never see an orb you have still been knowingly sold a defective camera at an obscenely high price by Fuji who wont even openly admit the problem exists and who even mocked their own customers over the issue. In the end that is all that matters. This type of behavior should not be rewarded with loyalty or your hard earned money.

Even if you love the X10 you should not be defending it or Fuji. You are just encouraging and excusing bad behavior.

We need to hold Fuji accountable for their actions regardless of what you think of the X10.

17 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 26, 2012)

I didn't say you couldn't like the camera, I said regardless of whether you like it or not you should not be giving Fuji a free pass for knowingly selling a defective product. The only way you can disagree is if you think it is ok for Fuji to sell defective products to people and then make fun of them when they complain about it because that is exactly what Fuji did.

The camera being defective is a fact. Liking the camera or not doesn't change it. My issue is not with the X10 it is with Fuji! I couldn't care less if you love the camera but Fuji needs to be held accountable for selling defective products.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 5 minutes after posting
15 upvotes
jkokich
By jkokich (Feb 27, 2012)

Josh, you're right. Consumers can like it, but defending Fuji's actions is ridiculous.

13 upvotes
Canniborg
By Canniborg (Feb 27, 2012)

I am not going to make a deep analysis of consumer profile, but to my book, a 600$ camera is not a camera the usual consumer is going to buy, but rather a well informed or a ready to explore the world of photography, hence s/he is ready to face some dangers as in any exploring (read: accept some limitations in some areas to get some advantages in some other)... What's more, if you ask me, just by looking of the site of Fuji, it would be enough to let you in the cold, with expressions like "perfect combination".... It's just that their sensor technology is not that advanced, worth of the hype.... it is just another bayer array sensor, with 45 degrees tilted pixels, nothing new, nothing goundbreaking, I would preferably make fun of them rather of getting really upset about....

0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Josh, no, sorry the only way I can disagree with you isn't to fit into your neat little category. Please get over yourself and get a life. Not everything about this matter is a crusade for truth and justice.

0 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 27, 2012)

sgoldswo,

So you do believe that Fuji should get a free pass? Do you think everyone should just accept a $600 defective camera without complaint? Because if you don't we agree completely.

You are the one who is on a crusade to defend a defective camera and Fuji's reprehensible actions. You are constantly being disrespectful and abusive to people. It's like you think if you are mean enough it will make people agree with you. But it doesn't. It just destroys your credibility and makes you appear extremely immature. Try being civil for once. You might find out it works better for you than alienating people with your abrasive attitude.

Comment edited 45 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Bob Ell
By Bob Ell (Feb 26, 2012)

A friend of mine bought the Fuji X10 over the Pentax Q and discovered the orbs.

He waited until the latest firmware fix but the orbs are still present. He has decided to take the Fuji back (within 30 day return policy) and is probably going to get the Pentax Q. I'll see him in a week or so, and will learn what his replacement pocket camera is.

I did get a chance to play with the Fuji and it is a pretty neat camera. Feels solid and the controls are convenient and easy to figure out.

According to DPReview many folks using the camera will hardly ever experience the orbs, but if you are an experienced photographer and you use the camera in all sorts of light situations the orbs are an going to be a problem.

By the way he already owns a Nikon D7000, he just wants a pocket camera for those times when a DSLR just won't work for him.

0 upvotes
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Feb 26, 2012)

For $100 less than the price of the X-100, you can buy a Pentax Q without the luxury of orbs in smaller, lighter package that is better built and far more versatile.

5 upvotes
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 26, 2012)

It's not the X100 we are talking about.

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

no, please no Pentax Q

2 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

Can we buy an action man to take the pictures for us? I don't think a human being would be able to use those controls...

You are right on the price though. Last time I went to my local Jessops they were practically giving white Pentax Q's away free with each purchase..

0 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 26, 2012)

Here's the only kind of Orb I like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaMLNsBTbUM

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

Fact: There is a sensor problem. The X-S1 is indeed the same problem.
Fuji is actually standing KO

4 upvotes
frank_be
By frank_be (Feb 26, 2012)

I own a Fuji X10 and I'm actually more disapointed in it's low light AF performance than in the orbs.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

That I can not confirm. In addition to the orbs, the X10 is excellent. Especially in low light - especially in Pro.Lowlight mode, you see photos of @sarkozy:

http://www.dpreview.com/members/6127154653/galleries

This is also my impression of the X10 Lowlight: Very good

0 upvotes
barkal
By barkal (Feb 27, 2012)

I too find the poor auto focus a much more serious issue. I bought the X10 for the nearly non-exixtant shutter lag after prefocus which is a major concern for me. I have a Canon G12 which has terrible lag. I can never catch a facial expression with that camera. The X10 often misses focus wildly, being way out of focus. I am currently using the camera in manual focus mode, prefocusing with the AFL/AEL button. In this mode you can take a series of shots with minimal lag PROVIDING you leave the LCD on which is a drag. Since minimal lag is key to my work I'm willing to work around the other issues.

1 upvote
Allan K
By Allan K (Feb 26, 2012)

I have found that the firmware update fixes the problem in daylight shots but only in EXR mode. It seems to make no difference to white discs caused by by bright highlights due to indoor lighting or night shots.

Comment edited 22 seconds after posting
1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

The Firmewareupdate brings nothing. . .
I have it removed because it is the IQ verschelchtert in EXR mode

1 upvote
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Feb 26, 2012)

It would have only fixed it by raising ISO. Do you like shooting ISO800 in broad daylight?

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

The higher the ISO does not solve the problem. It's still there, whether with 1.02 or 1.03

1 upvote
Allan K
By Allan K (Feb 26, 2012)

It didn't raise the ISO in EXR mode but the white disc effect was definitely fixed.

0 upvotes
Allan K
By Allan K (Feb 26, 2012)

It used a smaller aperture and under exposed compared to non EXR.

1 upvote
Allan K
By Allan K (Feb 26, 2012)

Highlights were still blown but the signature disc with dark border was gone.

0 upvotes
Danielepaolo
By Danielepaolo (Feb 26, 2012)

@Allan. The white disc effect was definitely not fixed. It made no difference, did you read the article? Plus the supposed fix only affected EXR dial mode to which there was no difference.

Where did you read they used a smaller aperture? Reducing exposure is the only way to reduce orbs but you pay a big penalty for that in the IQ department. You need to reduce exposure by at least 3 stops.

1 upvote
xavozin
By xavozin (Feb 26, 2012)

just consider them added "moons" to your pix. don't we sometimes cheat and add a false moon by PP and then call that beauty?! how kind is Fuji to save us the effort & embarrassment of such false additions. and don't complain that you get multiple moons, most of the other planets apart from Earth have many moons.
the FW was meant as a damage control, so that few more units can be sold b4 the camera is discontinued, and to shut the mouth of every complainer about the issue, that there has been FW solution to it.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
Jimmy jang Boo
By Jimmy jang Boo (Feb 26, 2012)

Why anyone would pay $600 for the X-10 is mind boggling...

Especially when $100 more will buy a NEX-5n. Even if Fuji COULD fix the orb problem, what you're left with is an overpriced, glorified "chick" point and shoot with an itty bitty little sensor.

5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

I agree with you up to a point. I wouldn't get it as my only camera. But as a fun P&S to stick in your bag and carry everywhere its great. For me it replaced a TZ-10 travel zoom in the role.

It's lighter than a NEX-5N and smaller once you've factored in the lens on the NEX. Don't get me wrong, I think the NEX cameras are great, I've had 5, 5N and own a 7 but once you put the lens on they are less bulky than a DSLR, but more bulky than cameras like the X10 (or X100 for that matter). I don't think the price comparison is fair either because the kit zoom on the NEX isn't terrible (like most kit zooms) but it isn't great either. I have the Zeiss 24mm and the 50mm OSS but that takes you into a different price band.

Also, while the X10 is definitely my cheapest camera, this ORB issue has too many parallels with "clickgate" in relation to the NEX-5N. Lots of people piling in with all sorts of crazy examples and comparisons that make you wonder if they've used the camera.

1 upvote
GaryJP
By GaryJP (Feb 27, 2012)

You dumped your X100? I thought that a MUCH better camera.

0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

No, I still have the X100, but the original comment was a comparison to the NEX-5N. You can compare a NEX 5N to the X100, but not to the X10. The X100 is like a flawed genius, for every great point (IQ, controls) there is a bad point (focusing generally). I've lost a lot more photos to the cr@ppy AF on the X100 than I ever have to "orbs" on the x10 which is one of the reasons I think this topic is bunkum.

0 upvotes
mauro paillex
By mauro paillex (Feb 26, 2012)

Orbs?? For me it is not a problem!! Great small camera!

5 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 26, 2012)

There is a problem because it can it is not excluded. see you:

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/648896439/photos/1768685/shokl

1 upvote
Mr Dynamite
By Mr Dynamite (Feb 26, 2012)

So the issue is how much it matters to you. For me, it's a small price to pay for such a one-of-a-kind tool. I don't use this camera for anything critical. I use it for quick candids and stuff, where it gets me the shots in situations that no other camera this small or at this price could. There's plenty of quirks, but generally speaking there's no other camera this small at this price point that allows such quick operation. I can zoom the lens, autofocus, recompose, adjust zoom again, and ring off 8 continuous shots before any of it's competitors have even finished zooming. In my opinion, THAT'S the difference with this camera- it's a small, solid, relatively cheap camera that allows me to get the shot before it's gone.

6 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 26, 2012)

No the issue is whether or not you want to spend $600 on a defective camera. Even if the orbs don't bother you do you really think people should be supporting a camera manufacture that has been knowingly selling defective products for months and who's first reaction to it was to basically laugh at their customers?

This isn't really about the camera at all. This is about expecting Fuji to sell defect fee cameras and to make it right if they don't. So far Fuji hasn't even apologized.

1 upvote
LaFonte
By LaFonte (Feb 27, 2012)

It isn't defect, it is not like something broke on few cameras, it is the way the sensor is designed. It has higher blooming in low ISO and the highlights seems to be suddenly clamped after certain value.
This was probably their way to get higher DR.
Some people may not care, not see it or be perfectly happy with it.
Some higher cameras will have banding in high ISO and nobody calls it defective either. There are many other issues, the x100 will have problems focusing in close distance, is it defective?

1 upvote
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 27, 2012)

Considering that,
A. Fuji has made other EXR sensor cameras with out this problem.

B. It is the only sensor ever made to have this problem despite other sensors having better DR.

C. It has such a negative impact on the IQ of the camera that it literally renders it useless if there is a specular highlight in the image and that it would be silly to make such a compromise for a little extra DR.

D. That Fuji tired to fix it with a firmware update.

E. Despite all the outcry Fuji hasn't said it was the way the sensor was supposed to be or that they had to do for DR.

I seriously doubt it is supposed to be that way.

Comment edited 3 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Josh152
By Josh152 (Feb 27, 2012)

But even if having the orbs was a conscious decision Fuji still owes people refunds if they want them.

Your see the orbs prevent the camera from being used in situations where the buyer has a reasonable expectation the camera will function perfectly since all other cameras of this type do function correctly in the same situations. The buyer also has a reasonable expectation the X10 will handle specular highlights in the same way that literally every other camera on the market does unless Fuji says it doesn't which they haven't.

If Fuji made the sensor like this on purpose they had an obligation to tell people it didn't handle specular highlights in the industry standard way as consumers reasonably expected it to. This is no different than a car manufacture not including headlights on this years model and not saying anything about it until buyers complained. Then upon hearing the complaints they just said " I don't drive at night" and "the car is in spec."

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Mr Dynamite
By Mr Dynamite (Feb 26, 2012)

Regarding the "orbs": I've shot thousands of images with the X10, and I did find some orbs, but that's not really the issue. In my experience, they only occur noticeably at pinpoints of full-white surrounded by much darker areas- then you can find an "orb" when you look at the pixels. Truthfully, my highlights are rarely pinpoint size and surrounded by darker shades that allow the "orb" to pop out. My full-white highlights are (for example) contoured around my backlit subject or something like that. And if my backlight is 2 or 3+ stops higher than my subject light, then something does become noticeable: that bright rim-light line around my backlit subject, those areas of full-white and no detail, are a few pixels wider than on images from other cameras. They seem to "bleed" more into adjacent pixels. Maybe it's "orbs" for some people, but I'd call it "highlight bleed" or something like that.

1 upvote
techmine
By techmine (Feb 26, 2012)

When I took this photo the ORB issue was just a smoke so I thought this is just a harsh bokeh (under harsh conditions). Ever since the issue has become a full blown fire, I am trying to count the number of ORB's in this photo.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/7436837407/photos/1770716/count-the-orb-s

I still love the photos that come of this camera under normal conditions!

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

I still think this story and some of the comments here are bizarre. We've had distasteful comments linking the X10 Orbs to the Nazis and police brutality. It's a camera - some of the ones they made apparently don't work very well.

I think some of the people posting here could do with seeing more "Orbs" of another kind...

If you buy it and aren't satisfied, return it.

5 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 26, 2012)

"We've had distasteful comments linking the X10 Orbs to the Nazis and police brutality."

Actually, it's really more about people using the Internet to shed light onto issues that might otherwise be swept under the rug, or hidden from the unsuspecting public. If you think this is "distasteful", then you reveal yourself to be a bigger shill than ever.

2 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

@T3 You really should wear a cape.

Don't you think it's distasteful (not to mention over the top) to draw parallels between a flawed camera and death and violence?

5 upvotes
Seagull TLR
By Seagull TLR (Feb 26, 2012)

@sgoldswo Well said; I found many of the comments and remarks here are more colorful than the presidential campaign :-P.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Feb 26, 2012)

@sgoldswo, they were only conceptual parallels. The point being that in today's information age, things are revealed that would otherwise be swept under the rug, hidden from public view, white-washed, or denied completely. We should *all* be applauding the fact that we live in this information age where such things, big and small, are revealed. If you think that's distasteful or flawed, then it's clear that you have a greater interest in obscuring such things, then revealing them to public scrutiny. What's distasteful is people trying to trivialize these things. Let's not push the issue aside. Let's not try to obfuscate. Let's not just sweep these things under the rug. Let's not try to blame the user for what is clearly a hardware issue. All these things are what is truly "distasteful."

Let things be revealed, without any white-washing or sugar-coating or spin-doctoring, and let the chips fall where they may.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

Keep your cape on T3. You'll be fighting for truth, justice and the american way next... This is hardly the Arab Spring is it?

0 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

@sgoldswo

didn't I tell you to shut up already, you know it all, you are the best on everything and you are better than everyone, you are the most distasteful one, pal.

0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 27, 2012)

Telling someone who doesn't agree with you to shut up about summarises your contribution @Jmmg

0 upvotes
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Feb 26, 2012)

I remember the times when people started to carry video cameras (yeah, with cassettes) and filmed just about anything. And so it came to be that a clip was made showing cops beating up a guy silly. That was the world before videos and I think things have changed for the better. Even cops have video recorders in their cruisers now as the burden shifted.

It appears we have a similar situation when the firms can no longer put out a poor product and expect no significant fallout. So now we have sites like dpr and we can get heads-up on things we would otherwise be rather ignorant about (ditto for TV news).

The power of the Internet also created counter-moves called the shills and fanboys (and one fangirl). Lets get smart. Most of us know where the truth is, we know da law, and all them spindocs are easy to pass over or filter out. We got the Internet, they got ... well, not much. I think it is not necessary to complain. Bring them on! Make my day.

1 upvote
T3
By T3 (Feb 26, 2012)

You're right. It's really hard to argue against raw video or photographic evidence. Clearly, DPreview's tests, and the example of many others, offer irrefutable photographic evidence. That forces the defenders to twist into some bizarre and futile contortions of logic. Some say, "Well, it's the user's fault for being a bad photographer." Others say, "Well, it isn't so bad." LOL. That's like saying a brutal videotaped police beating "isn't so bad" or that the victim is the one at fault for the beating. Or even worse, "It's not so bad because it doesn't happen all the time."

We can all see with our own eyes, from the various examples and DPreview's test images, that the orbs are there, they're obvious, they're clearly *not* supposed to be there, other cameras are not producing these orbs in identical conditions...these are clear and evident truths. You are absolutely right: we got the Internet, we got the evidence, they got...well, not much.

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting
1 upvote
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

So this issue with the X10 has parallels with the beating of Rodney King in 1991???

3 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 26, 2012)

It has parallels because it makes the defenders of these things seem pathetic and unconscionable in the face of clear, irrefutable evidence that everyone can see. Obviously, police beatings are of much greater magnitudes of significance and severity, but the *concept* of their defense has parallels. No one is saying "white orbs = police beatings". What's being said is "unreasonable excuses and defenses = unreasonable excuses and defenses". Furthermore, what's being said is that the Internet has empowered the common people to speak up against these things.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 26, 2012)

Clearly: you could not argue against facts. And they spread arond the world with Internet, forums and true reviewers as DPR!

0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

@T3 What you have said IS offensive and out of all proportion to this issue.

5 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

@sgoldswo,

Have you heard an expression of "First they burns book, than they burns people!" Before? Yes, the X10 is not the real concern or issue here, how the whole reaction and handling of the issue from Fujifilm Co. and people like yourself are the problem, white washing the truth, cover up spin doctor and try to fool the public and BTW, why not, do yo u know what kind of involvement as Fujifilm and its original company in building weaponry and KILLING tools for the Imperial Japanese Empire in WW2? How many of those same Imperial Japanese officers or Killers are still on the board of the company or running the show behind the scene. You are so naive and ignorance, just shut your mouth.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 6 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 26, 2012)

I am a photographer, a professional (fashion/beauty) + amateur (portrait/street). Like many other people here, I have SLRs, lenses, and different compact cameras, including LX3, Fuji W1 (3D is playful), X100... and don't own a X10. Not related to Canon, Nikon, Fuji or other. Enough disclosure!

I found the X10 sexy, a really interesting camera with strong features, maybe a camera I have bought if I have not a X100. And if it could be able to do good photo in any circumstance.

The basic and main feature of a camera for Expert, Pro or Amateur, is to output corrects images in most case, if any.
Controls (and manual controls!), versatility, high-dynamic range, high ISO, are really a plus, but if the basic feature of taking an outdoor sunny day picture correctly is not there, they doesn't matter.

My point is, Fuji should correct that, I owned many Fuji camera that I liked (S7000, F10, W1, ...) and the first point is that they do great photos. No orbs.

5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't get me wrong, I also own an X100 and love it. However, even its most religious adherent must admit its a deeply flawed camera in many ways.

The AF is flaky compared to my NEX and the macro implementation is nuts. There are other issues with the camera. However it does produce great pictures, as you say. Except in low light where you get a bizarre halo effect around lights. It's as much a problem to me as the orbs are on my X10, that is to say, not much.

1 upvote
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 26, 2012)

You're right, the X100 is not a perfect camera too, I love it, but the AF is totally disappointing in many situations, and manual focus is .... hum... forget it if you are not too patient, or need to do a quick focus!
Notice that I didm't see the halo effect, or it wasn't a problem on my night street photography (the thing I like to do)

The thread is about X10 anyway, talking about the orbs that Fuji should fix. But I fear this is captor-related and needs a new revised sensor :(

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

Fair enough. My point is that this orb issue isn't a big deal for me with my example of the camera.

0 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 26, 2012)

I own the x10 and the orb issue is extremely blown out of proportion. I have gotten about 4 orb pictures over the span of thousands of shots...and 75% of my x10 use is a night.

I would in good conscious recommend the camera. Frankly, the people complaining about the orbs either don't own the camera or are looking for the perfect camera rather tha making the perfectt pictures.

0 upvotes
iAPX
By iAPX (Feb 26, 2012)

It's not about me. It's not about you.

It's about anyone spending $600 on a camera thay may reveal itself unable to offer a minimum level of quality in many situations where anyone expects that a $100 camera will do!

People spend money, and for some of them it's a big spending, and they may see the problem too late to be able to obtain a refund. It could ruin the photos of the travel of your life, or a wedding.

Fuji have to fix it, or offer a correct resolution for people that were deceived by this camera. That's it.

5 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

@iAPX I agree that manufacturers have to stand behind their products. But to claim that a faulty product can't be returned is ridiculous - a camera, like anything else has to be satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. If peoples pictures are being ruined, that's awful, but then the camera isn't satisfactory quality or fit for purpose and both the retailer and the manufacturer are liable. At least that's the way it would work in every common law and EU jurisdiction.

0 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

@sgoldswo,

when are you going to wake up and realize not everyone in this world live in your little utopia? Yeah, in the real world and many parts of the globe, people Could not JUST return the camera especially when the manufacture is denying any wrong with the camera, moron! People like you just simply PXSSED ME OFF!

Comment edited 60 seconds after posting
1 upvote
NikonScavenger
By NikonScavenger (Feb 26, 2012)

First of all, the orbs are real. I have no doubt that the people posting real world photos taken in a variety of situations are not maliciously trying to ruin Fuji's reputation by doctoring the images or exacerbating the issue. I also have no doubt that dpreview is pursuing the issue out of sincere concern for consumers, and not trying to single out Fuji.

What I don't understand is people who adamantly think this isn't real, is an exaggeration/fabrication, then go on to discredit and attack any legitimate sources who disagree.

It'll be fine, the fact that the product you bought being flawed does not reflect negatively upon what kind of person you are. Searing/irrational denial does... or calls into your motives for defending a flawed product. The internet is full of shills, mostly because it's so hard to prove, yet you tend to find them screaming at the top of their lungs that nothing is wrong and discrediting people who have legitimate concerns...

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't disagree that they are real. What I do query is the level of prominence this has gained. We all know that some DSLRs suffer from banding and that the X100 had its infamous sticky aperture blade problem. Those are far more significant issues in my view than an issue I can only reproduce by standing directly in front of a bright light

1 upvote
Loewe NL
By Loewe NL (Feb 26, 2012)

I wish I had your X10. The one I have got here shows the white orbs on all small reflections of the sun on metal and water. Those are not direct bright lights.

You can reply on all comments saying that your X10 is much better than the rest and I have no reason not to believe you. But do you think it will contribute to these comments by repeating your statement over and over?

1 upvote
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

@Loewe. I don't disagree there is a problem, that is likely worse for some than others. If it is the same for everyone then this really is a complete non-issue and people need to grow up... However, I am glad you resolved your issues by returning your version of the camera.

I don't plan to limit my posts on this matter. I am sorry if that offends you. To the extent it convinces you of nothing I have no wish to convince you. Is that fair enough?

0 upvotes
T3
By T3 (Feb 26, 2012)

@sgoldswo- "I don't disagree that they are real. What I do query is the level of prominence this has gained."

I'd say that any time a camera introduces prominent, obvious, distracting artifacts that are clearly visible without the aid of any pixel-peeping...yeah, I'd say that warrants a fairly high level of "prominence". A lot of other sensor issues that other cameras have generally can't be easily seen without careful scrutinizing, particular with some degree of magnification. That simply is not the case with these orbs. You can *clearly* see them even with small, downsized web images that people have posted.

2 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 26, 2012)

Lawlz, there is nothing wrong. If you don't like the camera don't buy it! It's pretty simple really...

1 upvote
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

@nakeddork,

You are DORK for real bro.

0 upvotes
Loewe NL
By Loewe NL (Feb 26, 2012)

Last week I also bought a X10. I read about the white orbs but thought it would not bother me. It was a sunny day and I was testing the X10 just to see how it performs not thinking about the withe orbs at all. The photos were shot outside and cars were shining in the sun.

After reviewing the photos on my iMac 6 big white orbs were immediately visible on the edges of the cars. Another photo which shows the sun reflecting in a small lake contained numerous white orbs.

All other photos did not contain any white orbs, but did show beautiful images. The photos taken indoor in the evening without a flash were the best I have ever seen, unlike my other cameras.

I am an amateur, trying to learn and like taking pictures. Willing to spent time and money into this hobby. The X10 live up to my expectations in quality except for the white orbs. It does bother me more than I thought and I will return the camera.

Fujifilm please solve this issue so I won't have a problem buying it again.

Comment edited 52 seconds after posting
1 upvote
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

Seems fair enough to me. If it isn't fit for purpose in your view return it.

I didn't have this problem in sunlight and with reflections in the way others do (I basically have to aim directly at a bright light to produce an orb photo) so I'm keeping mine.

1 upvote
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

Post some simple with your X10 with high reflection on metal under sunlight,please. What, you don't want to or don't need to, then you are just blowing hot air up everyone AXX and BSing here all along.

0 upvotes
professor4321
By professor4321 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hi Barney,
First, thanks to you and DPR for this article.
Second, I realise I don't have to read the comments although generally it can be useful and enhance the article, adding further information.
Of course, in any forum there is the possibility, or should I say, the likelihood of a difference of opinion.
I believe in free speech. In spite of this (and maybe I'm too sensitive a soul) I feel attacking a person because of his or her views is completely unacceptable. By all means denigrate the product if one wishes (whether or not one owns it or not) preferably backed up by facts. Attacking people and their views regarding a piece of electronic equipment is just so wrong I'm speechless (or the written equivalent).
By all means reiterate the same points if one wishes but please let's all keep to the point of the article and stop this name-calling.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 8 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
buckshot
By buckshot (Feb 26, 2012)

This is no fix!

Before you read on please look again at the comparison images to the Panasonic.

The X10 has hole punched a larger area than the Panasonic. This “lost” area does not change in size when the ISO is raised it just blurs the edges with terrible IQ minimizing your ability to see that the blown area is much larger than it should be.

Enough is enough. Fujifilm should take responsibility for this issue. What form that takes is up to them, My suggestion is a $100.00 coupon to registered owners towards the purchase of a new Fujifilm camera. This would appease the frustration of those that can not return their cameras and instill a good feeling for long term and potential Fujifilm owners.

Do what is right Fujifilm

2 upvotes
buckshot
By buckshot (Feb 26, 2012)

There was a suggestion in the Fujifilm forum that 100 was to low.

I don't know.

If I were a Fujifilm sales person I would wish for a tool to save sales and make customers feel appreciated

2 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 26, 2012)

It fine, learn to shoot...

0 upvotes
lightandday
By lightandday (Feb 27, 2012)

I don't want $100 - I want the ORB problem fixed without deminishing the orginal spec of the camera or my money back !!!

1 upvote
buckshot
By buckshot (Feb 27, 2012)

"it fine, learn to shoot"? come on nakeddork please. Blown area is blown area... boosting ISO to mitigate the issue degrades the entire image and leaves the blown area with blurred edges from poor IQ. Sure folks could ";earn" to shoot at ISO 800 and better and at that point a cell phone takes images that could match it

2 upvotes
buckshot
By buckshot (Feb 27, 2012)

Lightandday

not too much to ask ...

0 upvotes
aeneon
By aeneon (Feb 26, 2012)

The troll here is so devoid of any reasoning, so just pop him on your ignore list and only converse with those sensible enough to see both sides of the coin.

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
Canniborg
By Canniborg (Feb 26, 2012)

hi, I think I have realised why the orbs are happening, maybe Fuji has not yet, and this is maybe the reason why they are not yet capable to issue a replacement program; a guy very aptly pointed out in a message here, that the Sigma sd9 also had the same issue; sometime ago I had read in a message in the Sigma forums tha the sd9 did not have microlenses.... well, I did a research and as expected, the all new organic exr sensor does not have either!
greets

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Canniborg
By Canniborg (Feb 26, 2012)

too late for edit.... I may be very well wrong, since the x10 does not have the organic sensor and it does have microlenses, as I have checked :-)

0 upvotes
Augustin Man
By Augustin Man (Feb 26, 2012)

Frankly I can't understand this "war" between us, the users, in criticizing or defending a camera or a brand: more than often cameras of the same brand can be excellent or not so good. What is the purpose in defending a faulty camera or in criticizing a good one? I hope neither of us is an employee of a camera making company, thus for us the competition is benefic because we have more possibilities to choose that camera we like the best.

3 upvotes
sgoldswo
By sgoldswo (Feb 26, 2012)

It's bizarre, I agree. All I wanted to say was that I don't find this an issue in my use of the camera and DPR, in my opinion, gives this undue prominence. I then had a ton of nutters ranting at me that I work for Fujifilm.

Assuming about half the people ranting have had genuinely bad experiences, it may be that this is worse for some users compared to others..

2 upvotes
Jmmg
By Jmmg (Feb 27, 2012)

Again, simples please, king of BS.

0 upvotes
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