Nikon D4 & D800: What do the Professionals Think?

It's been a busy couple of months for Nikon, during which the Japanese camera maker has announced two new models, the D4, a 16MP professional workhorse intended for hard use in a wide range of shooting environments, and the 36.3MP D800 - the long-awaited successor to the 12MP D700. With these two models Nikon has introduced some significant new technology to its high-end DSLR lineup, perhaps the most significant of which is a very impressive-looking video specification. Both cameras offer full HD video with live audio monitoring and the option to record uncompressed footage to a harddrive via the built-in HDMI port.

As far as the D4 is concerned, the improved video specification is arguably the most significant change to the spec sheet compared to the D3S. It gets a small resolution boost, from 12MP to 16, and improved high ISO performance but other refinements are relatively subtle. The D800 on the other hand (and it's near-twin the D800E) breaks through a major barrier, offering a currently unmatched pixel count of 36.3MP for $3000 - half the cost of the D4. Despite the cost and resolution disparity though, the two cameras have a lot in common. 

Click here for our detailed first impressions (including samples) of using the D4
And here for our  overview of the Nikon D4
And here for our  in-depth preview of the Nikon D800

Following our announcement and preview content of these cameras, we wanted to get a feel for what professional Nikon shooters think. We asked four photographers, whose work and expertise spans a wide variety of genres to tell us what they think of the D800 and D4. Our own in-depth reviews will follow in the coming weeks.

The Sports and News Photographer: Leon Neal

I've been waiting for the D4 for some time but, unlike previous product refreshes, the D3s had never really left me crying out for anything apart from improved video. I was pretty sure that full HD video would be included in the D4,and handling a pre-production camera it was a real pleasure to finally see "1080p" displayed on the screen while shooting video.

August 2011. The morning after serious violence in central London which resulted in the destruction of several homes and businesses. Shot with a Nikon D3S and AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8

In my normal stills shooting though it's the little things that make a difference. The D4's screen, for example now has a resin coating between the plates which, Nikon claims, will eliminate fogging when the cameras have got wet. This might not sound significant but I have two D3 bodies that have never recovered from shooting one particularly wet job, so I'm pleased to see that changes have been made. 

Likewise, the D4's time-lapse feature takes the maths out of the process, simply asking you how often you want to shoot and then displaying how long the finalised clip will be, depending on the interval that you currently have set. Not only that, but on completion, the D4 stitches the sequence together and outputs a high-quality movie file. No more messing around in Quicktime Pro...

I haven't been able to shoot any images on a production camera yet but just from looking at pictures on the LCD screen I could see that the noise levels produced in the higher ISO ranges were definitely improved, even compared to the D3s. Having shot quite a bit of low-light sport recently, I'm impressed with what the D3s can produce but with the D4 I'm looking forward to shooting at ISO 12,800 hopefully without needing to worry about noise affecting detail.

I honestly can't wait to use the D4 in anger at the London Olympics later this year if it's as good as it looks so far. The D4 has come along at a good time for me because I'll be shooting swimming and several other indoor events so I'll need the best image quality possible at high ISO settings. The 2012 Olympics will also be 'wired' so I'm really pleased that Nikon has added an Ethernet port to the D4. Also, as a regular user of the WT-4 wireless transmitter, it's great to hear about the new smaller-form WT-5 unit. Less gear to carry is always a plus point, no matter what other features it has!'

After six months' planning Leon got only a few minutes at an effective focal length of 850mm to get this shot of Prince William and Kate Middleton's kiss after the Royal Wedding in April 2011.

This image was shot using a Nikon D3X with 600mm lens and 1.4x teleconverter.  
This image of the World Short-track Speed Scating Championships was shot in March 2011 using a Nikon D3s and 14-24mm f2.8 lens.

As for video, I regularly shoot 'webclips' for my employer Agence France-Presse which involve creating short 1-2 minute clips that can be used online to support text and photo stories. I've also shot footage for broadcast though, at last year's riots in inner London, for example. I like the fact that video is more tightly integrated into the D4 than the D3S and I'm really pleased to see that as well as full HD output, a headphone output has now been added for live audio monitoring. It's such a simple thing but the video teams at AFP were always astounded that the D3S didn't allow me to monitor my audio in any way. As well as 24, 25 and 30 frames per second, the D4 also allows 60 frames per second at the reduced 720p quality, which will allow me to capture slow-motion footage in camera - potentially very useful.

As for the D800, I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on one. A more compact form factor, incredible pixel count and full HD video makes it very very appealing for general-purpose stills and video work. I've always loved the size of the D700 and if the D800 can maintain D3-like image quality with three times the pixel count, it could feasibly end up being the more exciting of the two cameras. Bring it on!

Leon Neal is a staff photographer for international news agency Agence France-Presse. Leon shoots everything that comes his way including news, sport, features, fashion and live music. Although mainly based in the UK, foreign assignments include the revolution in Libya and the Winter Olympics in Vancouver.

To see more of his work visit www.leonneal.com 

The Multimedia Photojournalist: Dan Chung

The Nikon D4 and D800 are very interesting to me. I was running both Canon and Nikon systems side by side for ages - Nikon for stills and Canon for stills and video, but a couple of months ago I finally got rid of my Nikon bodies, mainly because I just wasn’t really shooting on them. I kept all my Nikon glass though, so if I decide to get another Nikon body I’ll be ready to start shooting again immediately. 

One of the main things I liked about the D700 for stills was it's faster frame rate compared to the Canon EOS 5D Mark II. The D800 is a slower camera than the D700, but the biggest draw compared to the 5D Mark II is the more advanced video specification.  

Canon EOS5DmkII, One night in Beijing (shot with Nikon lenses). from Dan Chung on Vimeo.

Both Canon and Nikon are producing great cameras now that you can shoot excellent video footage with. The difference obviously is that Canon is better established in that field. The D4 and D800 are still unknown quantities for now, but I know I could go on a broadcast shoot with a Canon EOS C300 tomorrow, and mix the footage in with video from the 1 DX or 5D Mark II and it would work.

This is why right now I would consider myself a Canon shooter. Until to the launch of the D4 and D800 there’s been no other choice for DSLR video really. Sony’s DSLR video stuff doesn’t quite cut it, and the Nikon D3S didn’t really cut it either - it didn’t have enough video resolution, the frame rates weren’t there, and frankly the image quality in video mode just wasn’t up to the same level as the Canon EOS 5D Mark II. As a stills camera the D3S is lovely but right now I need a video camera that shoots stills, not a stills camera that shoots video.

Shot on the Nikon D700 and AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8, this image is part of a 2009 case study of Hasina Begum, Char Atra, Bangladesh, taken by Dan for Oxfam. 

That's why I think the new Nikons look really interesting. I will definitely be looking at the D4 and D800 in more detail because I can’t afford not to. But I’d say the same thing about the Canon EOS-1 DX as well. There are a couple of key features missing from the Canon EOS-1 DX though that the Nikons have got - a headphone jack, and clean HDMI output. The headphone jack is something that I’ve been asking both Canon and Nikon to put on their DSLRs for a long time, and I hope that it’ll become a standard feature.

I think we’re getting to the stage now where the video functionality isn’t something that a multimedia photojournalist would switch systems for, as I've been forced to do in the past. So if you’re a Nikon shooter and you’re deeply invested in Nikon then there’s probably no need any more to go to Canon purely for video. Whatever system you use, video is definitely here to stay in DSLRs. Even for broadcast and movie professionals using RED or Cinema EOS equipment, cameras like the D4, D800 or EOS-1 DX could potentially be really interesting as B units or C units. The form factor is nice and compared to the pro video equipment they're attractively priced, too.

I need to see more footage though - only when I'm confident that video quality from the D800 and D4 is comparable to what I've seen from the EOS-1D X and whatever replaces the 5D Mark II will I really be able to decide which works for me. I've got some tough decisions to make but I'll definitely be spending some money soon! 

Award-winning photojournalist and videomaker Dan Chung made his name as a photographer for The Guardian and Reuters news agency, and has since pioneered the use of DSLRs in filmmaking, particularly in news coverage. Dan lives and works in China, but travels the world on assignment.

Dan also runs the industry blog www.dslrnewsshooter.com 

Click here to read page 2 of this article, Nikon D4 & D800: What do the Professionals Think?

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Comments

Total comments: 391
123
unclebuzz
By unclebuzz (Feb 23, 2012)

But, why do stills photographers want video anyway? The D700 is a very good camera, all was needed was an update!!
Nearly every new camera on the market now has to have video, or the photographic world goes nuts - Why ?
I'm a stills photographer - I want a Pro digital stills camera, without having to buy a Leica M9! Please Nikon remember what stills photography is all about?
Maybe Nikon and Canon should just bite the bullet, and start making mobile phones!!

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
11 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

Yes - agree
Nikon - Stay by photo and video do not touch - you know nothing about it
and
The D700 is still an excellent camera and I would rather buy than a D800 with the 36MP (!?)

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
5 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

just dont buy a digital camera till you can afford/justify an m9:)

1 upvote
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 23, 2012)

i think, the M9 is not a good deal: see you dxomarks
the M9 is Moire-Monster - I just sold my

2 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

i dont want to start an m9 discussion here^^

if you sold yours because the m9 is a moire monster, thenwhy did you buy it at first place? you knew it has no aa filter and bought a 5k system camera just to sell it because it has moire issues, sorry but thats silly

2 upvotes
Teila Day
By Teila Day (Feb 24, 2012)

Because many photographers are sick and tired of having to have two devices to get coverage. Having video built in saves time, lowers cost, allows me to get vid when I didn't think I'd need it, allows me to put it on the iPad quickly for business related sharing, etc. The D700 is a great camera, but speak for yourself when you say "all it needed was an upgrade" as I think Nikon made a great decision with the D800. Instead of taking just stills of a wedding, bridal, glamour session... I can include vid clips too. Instead of just stills for a property broker, I can include vid. without lugging around another piece of equipment.

If the D800 had been around, I wouldn't have purchased a 5d2- but it did for me what a D700 (nor my other Nikons) couldn't.

Kind of like asking why people would possibly want a water dispenser along with their ice dispenser built into their refrigerator.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm with Teila here.

0 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 25, 2012)

Print is fading away and the net is becoming a dominant medium.

Video is also a part of the net. Yes, multimedia cameras are the future. Manufactures have to employ video to stay competitive. If nikon does not improve video function Canon will become the dominant multimedia camera, and become the standard in multimedia world...and vice versa.

You're not forced to use the video capability if you don't want. Or you can stick to the D700, which is great still only camera.

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

yes, BPJosh - that's better than the crappy video quality of the Nikon to discuss

Comment edited 32 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Double Dust
By Double Dust (Feb 23, 2012)

An amateur who does not like expensive Nikons? What's wrong with you. Bad pills?

0 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

????
the Video IQ from the D4 and D800 is bad - my friend
do your eyes on

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

@rusticus: bad for what? your next pro video job? worse then the iphone4? worse then the red cam? its a dslr and 85% complain that it even HAS video. so if it has video which is bad, and the video is bad too it should be good again, if you cant use the video because of its quality then its like having no video at all hehe

Comment edited 37 seconds after posting
3 upvotes
Ormskirk
By Ormskirk (Sep 19, 2012)

The end of the day its the photo on the paper that matters. As David Dailey I believe, once said, it is the person behind the camera that matters the most. I only own very low end Dslr's and canon G series cameras. and I as a humble portrait photographer and part time wedding man, am very satisfied with my pictures. I don't think it is helpful to pull others opinions down, I learn something from every opinion I read.

0 upvotes
BPJosh
By BPJosh (Feb 23, 2012)

I would have liked to hear the opinions of studio and landscape photographers as well.

Comment edited 20 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

or this from the GH2
http://vimeo.com/33025136

the D800 or D4 looks old ;)

4 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

Hmm, you seem a bit worried, trying to prove something.

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

Look at this video of the HX9V for $ 300

http://vimeo.com/25293447

http://vimeo.com/25147475

and compares with the "proffessional" videos of the D800 for $ 3000 or the D4 for $ 6000: BullSh** for too much money - sorry

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Double Dust
By Double Dust (Feb 23, 2012)

Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. The HX9 (I have one) has a far to low bitrate for professional video use. But indeed the hacked GH2 (I have 2) with high bitrate is better than a 5D and perhaps better than the Nikons. But we have to see.

3 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

sry 28MBit AVCHD is not bad . . . ;) and 1080/50 or 60p

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 3 minutes after posting
2 upvotes
Double Dust
By Double Dust (Feb 23, 2012)

And with a superb zoom lens hahaha

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

do your eyes up and look
the nikons can not play with the big names in video:
No.1 for GH2 system and DSLR video
No. 2 Sony HX9V for compact cameras (adding 1080/50p or 60p)

3 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

@Double Dust The Nikon D800 with clean uncompressed HDMI out will be capable of over 300 mbits. That's over 3 times the bit-rate of even a hacked GH2.

I have the GH2. It uses a great codec and has a sharp image even with the 1.1 firmware, high bitrate unhacked. BUT the m43 sensor just cannot compete with the shallow DOF, low light, high ISO, dynamic range, color. All the things that make the 5D Mk II so popular with professional videographers, the D800 will have, but add HDMI out, and headphone jack and audio levels.

And post all the links you like (I love the Musgo trailer, have seen it before) but all you need to do is watch Joy Ride.

http://vimeo.com/36305675

1 upvote
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 24, 2012)

>but add HDMI out, and headphone jack and audio levels<

yes, but this make not a very good Video-IQ . . .

Comment edited 31 seconds after posting
1 upvote
ktzuguttenberg
By ktzuguttenberg (Feb 24, 2012)

@Double Dust: "Papalapap" ha, ha, ha, what you forgot: This is a very good Sony "G" lens

@rusticus: i agree

0 upvotes
digifan
By digifan (Feb 24, 2012)

Why would one buy a DSLR for professional video? FAIL.
If you spend 2800euro for a body to do video, I'd rather spend 1200 more and buy the Panasonic AF-101, much much much better for professional video.

0 upvotes
Delacosta
By Delacosta (Feb 24, 2012)

Ok, so all I need is $3000 for a D800. Oh, and how much to pay the crew of 100 to make this 6 min video?

0 upvotes
jsis
By jsis (Feb 23, 2012)

Of course, we all know that the more expensive your equipment, the better photographer you are.

Give me a break.

2 upvotes
ronstoor
By ronstoor (Feb 23, 2012)

You should have said, the better photographer you are the
more expensive equipment you can own.

4 upvotes
jsis
By jsis (Feb 24, 2012)

^^ you must be a moron if you believe that a good photographer can afford expensive equipment...

Comment edited 34 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
tmy
By tmy (Feb 27, 2012)

yeah, my dentist actually has the best equipment of anyone i know, incl DeVere 4x5 enlargers!!

0 upvotes
Twong
By Twong (Feb 23, 2012)

The images and video clips are mediocre at best ... a real disappointment. Showing them did not help promoting the new camera bodies at all.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

The images that you found mediocre were not even taken with the D800 or D4, and were not attempts of promote them. You might want to read the article before commenting to avoid making nonsensical proclamations.

4 upvotes
aleckurgan
By aleckurgan (Feb 24, 2012)

@marike6 Who care which camera they were taken with! Images are mediocre because they were taken by mediocre photographers.

0 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

But the "mediocre" photogs were chosen by DPR to pontificate about the new cameras, that's an issue.

0 upvotes
shakabra
By shakabra (Mar 24, 2012)

One thing that I never ever understand in these camera reviews.....is that no one ever talks about PRINTING. I mean, you don't even need more than a 1 megapixel camera if all you do is post photos on the internet. All this tech talk and stupid arguing... and not one mention of the final output: THE PHOTOGRAPH!!! 10 years ago, no one ever argued about which film or chemicals were superior. Now look at you. You are all tech geeks yet you have all lost sight of what photography is all about. the D800 has 36 megapixels and not one mention of what the prints look like.

1 upvote
OneGuy
By OneGuy (Feb 23, 2012)

There could well be another variable. One needs better and better lens to go with a higher and higher pixel count.

If Nikon lens is recognized as a better one, the 36 MPix can put a nice distance between it and Canon offerings.

Mr Chung speaks of system advantage and that's one way to try to fend off the Nikon challenge.

Perhaps dpr could comment on lens-limiting pixel count.

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

why not buy a leitax adapter for leica-r lenses,bat least thats my plan if i cant trade my d700 for an m8 ^^

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

Now that it is confirmed that the 5D Mk III will be 22 mp for $3,500, the D800 is looking even more like an obvious choice for many. And contrary to what many seem to think, high ISO images from the D800 will be as good, or better than the D700 with 3 times the resolution and better DR. If it's not the camera for you that's fine, but all the comments asserting that video is useless, or it's not a "real video camera" or more megapixels are just marketing are totally missing an important point. That is, Nikon has listened to what professional photographers like in this article had requested. And this D800, especially it this really fair price, will be difficult for Nikon to keep up with demand for.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
3 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

i agree - for Foto . . .

Nevertheless, I will not buy the D800 for 3000 or the 5D III for 3500 dollar

1 upvote
Tom Goodman
By Tom Goodman (Feb 23, 2012)

I've seriously considered the D700 after waiting for what seemed like forever for its successor, but at $2700 it isn't a significant price break from the D800. Therefore, it comes down to performance, as yet untested. "Celebrity" testimonials/endorsements mean nothing to me and offer no help or guidance in evaluating a camera any more than a car, dishwasher or hamburger.

2 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

Tom, just download a few of the full-size sample images floating around. I found them impressive, and have bought the D800, but I already knew I wanted a Nikon FF body.

0 upvotes
tlinn
By tlinn (Feb 23, 2012)

I'll say this: Sometimes I'm convinced Canon is the anti-Christ but I've never considered them stupid. I'll be curious to learn more about the 5D3. I doubt that they're relying solely on momentum to compete with Nikon's impressive D800.

I guess if price per megapixel is your only metric, then the D800 will be an obvious choice. For me there are other considerations. I would bet the 5D3 has better high ISO performance. I could be wrong but the physics suggest otherwise. I know that regardless of how good the lens attached to a D800 is, the physics of diffraction will limit resolution at far more apertures than the 22MP 5D3. It will be an interesting comparison when DPR looks at the relative image quality of these two models.

Comment edited 6 minutes after posting
4 upvotes
steve ohlhaber
By steve ohlhaber (Feb 23, 2012)

Who confirmed that the 5d3 was 22mp? Was it canon rumours???

0 upvotes
Double Dust
By Double Dust (Feb 23, 2012)

@ Rusticus: It's your money! Or don't you have it?

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 24, 2012)

@steve ohlhaber

see here:
http://nofilmschool.com/2012/02/canon-5d-mark-iiix-confirmed-at-22mp-and-3500-announcement-february-28th/

0 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

@tlinn: the 5D2 is worse than the D700 for high ISO, even at normalized printing size. The D800 is better, we have already seen samples. At base ISO the D800 DR should beat any camera out there, including MF backs, due to the updated Sony tech and size of sensor (using D7000's sesnor as reference). Canon's sensors' DR is their weak point. I think for stills the D800 will be the much better choice. If one is really into professional video and want a dslr for that, possibly Canon is a better choice, but we need to wait for actual comparisons.

2 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

I think this all very good cameras for Foto,
But there are better for film/video: the Panasonic GH2 (possibly with a hack)

Canon and Nikon DSLR go return to more photo - please
Film / Video: Panasonic is most better;)

http://www.eoshd.com/

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

Andrew at eoshd is a GH2 fanboy. He is only speaks of the apparent resolution of the hacked GH2 over the Canon DSLRs. He says nothing of the dramatically better dynamic range, low light performance, color depth, superior depth-of-field control and professional build quality and lenses that the Canon DSLRs like the 5D Mk II (and now the D4 and D800) provide. I have both a GH2 and a 5D Mk II, and there is no doubt that the GH2 produces a sharp video image, but there is much more to image quality than sharpness.

The filmakers of Act of Valor or Black Swan certainly could have used selected GH2's for their films. They didn't. They used 5D Mk II's and 7Ds.

Comment edited 50 seconds after posting
9 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

No, no. no.
I have the GH2 and the 5D II: The GH2 is clearly the better film camera

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

Why?

0 upvotes
manakiin
By manakiin (Feb 23, 2012)

Better (GOP1) codec? Higher bitrate? Less moire? Less aliasing?

4 upvotes
rusticus
By rusticus (Feb 23, 2012)

thanks manakiin!!!

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

guys, marike6 doesnt know anything about gop, otherwise she wouldnt talk like that. gh2 RULES for video, and there are countless videos online that prove that, even the hacked gh1 rules

0 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

How many times will you post that GH2 ... ?

0 upvotes
way2trivial
By way2trivial (Feb 23, 2012)

" astounded that the D3s didn't allow me to monitor my audio in any way."

Think outside the box man!
there are plenty of external microphones with a built in headset jack..

1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

who on earth would use a camera to record sound anyway ? ^^ hehe

3 upvotes
sesopenko
By sesopenko (Feb 23, 2012)

It's to be expected that the journalistic photographers they interviewed are excited about the D4 but dont know how the D800 would fit into their needs. It would have been nice to hear what some product, architectural and landscape photographers thought of the D800.

6 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Feb 23, 2012)

My *ideal* Nikon would be a D4 WITHOUT the built-in bulk of the second grip/shutter release. I could always buy one and bolt it on if I wanted (and never have, for any of my cameras), but can't *remove* the one that's physically part of the D4.

Why a D4 without a second grip rather than D800? Well, 16Mp is plenty for me - I've been using an E-1 with just 5Mp for the past 6 years, and have been perfectly happy with that. What am I going to do with 36Mp per shot, when even JPGs come in at 30megs-plus?

But I also want exceptional low-light performance, and don't want gimmicks like built-in flash that provide a breakable, water-permeable weak point on the camera's otherwise tank-like sealed body.

The Olympus E-1 was perfect in form factor. I just want to move to "full" 35mm frame, gain some resolution, improve low light support, and NOT have double the bulk, or break-off flip-up bits to get in the way.

So a gripless D4 please, Nikon!

Brian

7 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 24, 2012)

It will likely come within one year time. Until then, the D700 is still a wonderful option.

Oly? 4:3? Are you joking, no? Oly is leaving that behind already for m43.

0 upvotes
QSMcDraw
By QSMcDraw (Feb 23, 2012)

Can't believe the shortsightedness of brand bashers here. Would cameras really be better if only one company made them?

I'm sure some of you can't believe how naive I am for being surprised. What bizzare creatures venture forth from the depths!

8 upvotes
Frank C.
By Frank C. (Feb 23, 2012)

you guys wanna know what I think of the d4/d800? no? thought so lol

16 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Feb 23, 2012)

Ha-ha-ha! That is really nice post!!!

0 upvotes
Peter K Burian
By Peter K Burian (Feb 23, 2012)

Oh, tell us!!!

0 upvotes
Frank C.
By Frank C. (Feb 23, 2012)

won't.

na na nahhhh

0 upvotes
Deeso
By Deeso (Feb 23, 2012)

To sum up: These are two great cameras but people also need a true sucesor for the D700. Affordable, moderate resolution, standard DSLR body and high speed.

0 upvotes
Peter K Burian
By Peter K Burian (Feb 23, 2012)

I would have been VERY happy with a 24 megapixel D800.

1 upvote
uphillslide
By uphillslide (Feb 23, 2012)

Sounds like you'll be very happy with the 5D2 successor then.

0 upvotes
snackwells
By snackwells (Feb 23, 2012)

Shame on you for thinking MP is the only differential between the two cameras.

0 upvotes
amythomphson172
By amythomphson172 (Feb 23, 2012)

Be sure to get the grip for best balance and extended battery life. I find the D700 has better battery performance than the D300. Also if you do portraits, get a portrait Expo Disc and download the portrait custom setting for your camera. The results are very nice.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BTCSI6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=emjay2d-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B001BTCSI6

0 upvotes
Ken Schory
By Ken Schory (Feb 23, 2012)

These interviews, as with so many reviews and opinions, highlight the cameras' performance in areas other than image quality for still photography at low (native or near-native) ISO. That's all well and good, because a camera's performance under extreme conditions or when creating videos is important to some segments of the market. But for those who, for example, photograph landscapes, architecture or products, and who must differentiate their work from the competition on the basis of the technical and artist quality of their images, low-ISO performance for still photography merits equal coverage. I hope this concern is addressed in DPReview's full review of the D4 and D800.

2 upvotes
unknown member
By (unknown member) (Feb 23, 2012)

DPR trivialized enhanced low light performance of the D3s while photographers were clamoring for more bodies than Nikon could produce. I would not expect too much from a DPR review or preview along these lines. They are apparently a tad out of step.

2 upvotes
Superka
By Superka (Feb 23, 2012)

While many of us wait for Canon announcement, or the review of existing cameras (Pentax 645D, for example) dpreview entertains us with such articles. I think everyone who wants Nikon D800 or D4 understands all about them clearly without those professionals.

14 upvotes
diforbes
By diforbes (Feb 23, 2012)

Let's cut to the chase. No one knows how well these cameras will perform until they've used production models under many kinds of conditions. No one knows how well they will test in the lab - yet. So when will we see dpreview's full-on tests?

7 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

"Sony’s DSLR video stuff doesn’t quite cut it," according to one of the interviewees. Exactly what about the Nikons puts them ahead of an a77 or VG-20? To say of DSLR video that "The form factor is nice," more or less contradicts the basis for how videocam ergonomics evolved in the first place. No mention of video editing or workflow, so apparently the output gets wired outsourced to some back office for that task.

What I don't understand about the Olympics is how any single photographer on foot could compete with batteries of video cameras (perhaps 4k) mounted everywhere and wired to subscribers. At the pool venue, the best shots would be from RC cameras at every side of the pool, the the ceiling, or on mobile tracks beside the pool or under the water. A guy with a D4 would have to sit in one place and rely on a 300mm lens or something. To pick the winner or key action momment from 8 lanes of contestants would be pure gamble, except maybe in the 1500m event.

3 upvotes
Mark Forman
By Mark Forman (Feb 23, 2012)

It is funny that Sony get's it mention here as not cutting it.
Nikon does not make it's own DSLR sensors.
Sony does it for them!
Funny!

3 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

Both got it wrong: Nikon does design and has the D4's sensor made somewhere, likely not Sony. And Sony A77? Are you joking? These people want the best, and FF. And a full system and support behind it. Only Canon/Nikon provide that, Sony clearly opted for the mid-market.

Comment edited 43 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
EinsteinsGhost
By EinsteinsGhost (Feb 23, 2012)

If Sony is only targeting mid-market, there's no reason to draw a comparison. But then, they might be eager about Sony's replacement for A850 and A900 which is likely to be announced within a few months.

1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

come on guys, sony is not even in the same boat with canikon. they are a big electronic company trying to produce everything that brings money.

0 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 25, 2012)

Sony's one of the leading chip makers...and they have a much longer history in video manufacturing than both Nikon and Canon.

The sad thing is that Sony is going to improve on every sensor Nikon has before they put it in one of their bodies.

Frankly, I think Nikon is in a horrible position. It doesn't manufacture it's own sensors. Canon, Sony, and Fuji all do, and Sony and Fuji are innovating the compact world at the minute. It's only a matter of time till time they they start getting a a strong market share.

1 upvote
Peter K Burian
By Peter K Burian (Feb 23, 2012)

What about more typical pro photographers, like those who shoot weddings? A friend who does so, has ordered a D800, although he is concerned about high ISO quality due to the smaller pixels. He loves the D700 at high ISO. (High ISO is essential when shooting a ceremony where he is not allowed to use flash.)

1 upvote
88SAL
By 88SAL (Feb 23, 2012)

Ive studied photography at Griffith University, QLD, Australia.
The first day I walked into class, they said: "If you are here to learn how to be a wedding photographer, leave now".

These people are international professionals, who need to know their trade expertly. I value their opinions much more than your average wedding photographer.

You do not need super flash gear for a wedding, just knowledge and a keen composing eye.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
4 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

Wedding photography is a profession and the only bread and butter in most markets. Did Griffith University guarantee any graduates jobs with press agencies or geography publishers? What convinced the instructor to leave a divine realm for the sake of telling people to despise most people's work? People too proud to "do what needs to be done," often end up on the dole.

Unfortunately, mere wedding photographers do have to over-spend on gear, since the clients are as gossipy (or more) about appearance.

7 upvotes
bardphoto
By bardphoto (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm always amused by 'real' photographers who denigrate wedding photography. Many of these people are much better product/landscape photographers than portrait photographers, which requires both technical and interpersonal skills. In fact, quality wedding photography is arguably the most challenging photography - always dealing with a variety of people, in changing environments, sometimes under great duress. As a wedding photographer i don't have all the time in the world to set up a landscape shot, or snap my shutter a million times at a sporting event while sitting in a confined space. There aren't too many kinds of photographers who really use the full range of capabilities of their cameras as good wedding photographers do. I feel sorry for photography students who come across such teachers because as Cy said wedding photography, if one is so inclined, actually provides a realistic opportunity at a career that doesn't involve having another part-time job - or teaching photography.

11 upvotes
Paul Farace
By Paul Farace (Feb 23, 2012)

Well done! That photo teacher should have been boiled in fixer and stabbed through the heart with a monopod for dissing wedding photography for all the reasons mentioned above! BTW -- who among ALL photographers, be they Sports Illustrated cover shooters or small town generalists, doesn't shoot weddings, for family and friends?

5 upvotes
unknown member
By (unknown member) (Feb 23, 2012)

I always thought wedding photographers made up the bulk of pro group. Was I wrong? I wouldn't try it because of the real possibility I would make a mess of a once-in-a-lifetime event. To disrespect them is to disrespect a very large and usually talented group of professionals.

7 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

There are mnay more wedding photogs out there than all the pro sports shooters together. It's a huge everyday business, neither Canon nor Nikon can afford to leave them out of their portfolios.

2 upvotes
Peter K Burian
By Peter K Burian (Feb 23, 2012)

I have an extremely high regard for the types of photographers (in the article) but who buys more cameras? Wedding photographers. AND the few that I know, own fabulous equipment, the best cameras, lenses, and flash (and radio flash triggers, umbrellas, soft boxes) etc. because they want to give their clients technical excellence.

A good eye is important of course, but mediocre quality, harsh lighting, etc. are not the hallmarks of a pro.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
1 upvote
webrunner5
By webrunner5 (Feb 23, 2012)

I did wedding photography for years. It is very stressful, but I became quite good at it as I learned how to take control of it and set my pace, not theirs. I am not saying it ever becomes easy, but after years of doing it was just another day.

So it is a bit overrated as to how hard it is. The first few will give you gray hairs though lol.

Comment edited 58 seconds after posting
2 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 23, 2012)

I used to look down at wedding photographers until I worked a few WPPI shows. When it comes to making something that's frequently banal look great, on the fly, no matter what the conditions, these people are giants. And the fact that they know how to make a good and steady living shouldn't be held against them. And the food's good, too.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

The bulk of the pro group consists of people who shoot pictures for security badges or school yearbooks. Another big share works in Wal-Mart studios or the regional department of transportation. Then there are the people in corporate PR and advertising. But 90% of the self-employed photographers depend a great deal on weddings and other ceremonial events. Some do amateur sports on the side, pro bono, and maybe recoup some of the costs if that earns them rights to shoot the team pictures. Success is geared to hard work and marketing. Equipment is a hurdle as much from the vantage of client marketing, as it is in terms of pure performance.

1 upvote
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

i never would consider wedding photographers as "photographers" its like saying cab drivers and racecar drivers are the same, just because both drive cars as their profession ^^

1 upvote
BitFarmer
By BitFarmer (Feb 24, 2012)

88SAL, as we say in Spain, you just lost a perfect ocassion to keep your mouth closed!

I am not a wedding guy, but I do some times, and it is very very hard and challenging, and getting good shoots that doesn't look like always look wedding shoots needs all you can learn about photographi and even more.

And the worst part, you can't get drunk!

2 upvotes
SnapHappy32
By SnapHappy32 (Feb 24, 2012)

Sal.

So you opt for the oppinion of the guy who's stuck teaching saps like u?

The only photographers who laymen like me pay for are wedding photographers.

0 upvotes
nakeddork
By nakeddork (Feb 25, 2012)

Wedding photographers are shot jockeys. There's definitely a skill to it, but it's a horrible type of shooting. A lot of it depends on how good your camera is because you're depending on the automation to keep up with the pace.

0 upvotes
frenchmonkeys
By frenchmonkeys (Feb 26, 2012)

'Ive studied photography at Griffith University, QLD, Australia.
The first day I walked into class, they said: "If you are here to learn how to be a wedding photographer, leave now".

These people are international professionals, who need to know their trade expertly. I value their opinions much more than your average wedding photographer.

You do not need super flash gear for a wedding, just knowledge and a keen composing eye.'

If you refer to those crap weekend warriors who lost their job as a carpet salesman and so decide to call themselves 'Pro Wedding Photographers', then I agree.

However, a wedding photographer who knows his business (checkout Jeff Ascough, for instance) is extremely talented, an experienced professional who produces fantastic results, and demands quality, speed and convenience - they push their kit hard, and I respect their opinions on what makes a good camera/lens.

Your teacher was clearly an ignorant fool. Try not to emulate him.

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Biowizard
By Biowizard (Feb 23, 2012)

Funny, but all my life, I've preferred buying specialist equipment that is at the cutting edge of whatever single task I wish to perform ...

I want the best torch? I find a seriously high-intensity, single power LED model in a watertight anodised aluminium body carved out of a solid block of metal, with an optically coated toughened glass lens.

I want the best sound recorder? I get one with phantom-powered XLR sockets for studio mic input, high capacity CF storage abilities, and on-board review and editing features.

I want the best pen? I go for a handcrafted ... oh, you get the drift!

And so on. What I DON'T buy is a plastic torch with built-in sound recording facility and a biro point that can be used to scribble down track names in the dark, using said torch. Because Jack of All Trades is never Master of any One.

Now having said that, to poo-poo the D4 or D800 as "jacks of all trades" would be very, VERY wrong ... but the general direction these things are going in worries me.

2 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

They fit exactly your way of thinking, very specialized IMO, only maybe out of your range of interestes (which is?).

0 upvotes
inevitable crafts studio
By inevitable crafts studio (Feb 23, 2012)

so you would pay 3k for a camera that would have the processing power and technology to give you video, but you want them to deactivate it so you dont see it in the menue or what? ^^

if you want that kind of specialist equippment go to sony panasonic and all the othe tv companies that produce cameras nowadays.

if a nikon pro body is technically capable of doing video,i want it! even if i wouldnt use it. i never use timelapse on my d700, but god i would be mad if a 3k camera wouldnt have timelapse feature because the possibilities are there...

0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

Page 2 is MUCH better than page 1. Photographers, SUCCESSFUL ones, who don't care about video in an SLR. Finally, about time. In Andy Shephard's case, he uses a phone for video, I use a Kodak Zi8. Either way, I don't use the SLR, even though my D5000 has the video feature.

I realize YouTube in SLRs is here to say "because it can" (meaning it's easy to add the functionality) & "the cat is out of the bag", but it's irritating when the feature gets in the way of the stills-only which I do as a hobby. I'm likely to get the D5100, as an update to my D5000 with the D7000 sensor it makes perfect sense, but I sure wish that red-dot button, like the Fn button, could be customized to something else like, say, ISO or drive-mode.

You know, in a way, the D700 is attractive for that reason--as Thom Hogan said, it's still a great camera, & in my opinion, there's something satisfying about owning an SLR that doesn't do video. Oh well.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 9 minutes after posting
1 upvote
shaocaholica
By shaocaholica (Feb 23, 2012)

D700 still has LV which is pretty much video in its infancy. You better keep looking at older cameras.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

I dont' understand all the animosity toward video. If you don't need video don't use it. Simple. But don't pretend that an iPhone or Kodak Zi8 are a serious video solutions, because they are not.

There a plenty of professional photographers that understand the expanding role of multimedia imaging. You are clearly not one of them, and want to proudly wave your luddite flag. But don't expect camera makers to cater to such a narrow view of image creation.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
3 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

Hostility towards video owes to two factors: fear and incompetence. Fuddy-duddies fear marginalization by a market that wants video as well as stills. Fuddy-duddies are unable or unwilling to master the complex challenges of video, audio, and editing. Video takes geometric increase in work without proportionate increase in pay, or any added pay at all, except possibly the all or nothing chance to get work at all. The use of CAPS LOCK to dismiss video as the pasttime of failed photographers is absurd. Nearly any person shoots a photo, sooner or later, that will win a glance for a few polite seconds's glance. To create a video that elicits attention for longer than that, on the other hand, is a difficult feat.

4 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

(shaocaholica) Yes the D700 has LV, but it doesn't have a YouTube mode, good enough for me.

Everyone always slams me for not embracing YouTube in SLRs, but no one else. The attention is flattering I suppose. Anyway, I sure notice a LOT of people in here expressing lack of interest in videos, I'm hardly the only one. So if I'm a "fuddy duddy," I have plenty of company. Is Andy Shepperd a fuddy duddy? He's successfully earning a living at photography (ONLY) to a far greater degree than 97% of us in here (including me) ever will.

Whether video is harder or easier than photography is beside the point. Maybe you videographers are "incompetent" for not embracing learning how to paint. Maybe car mechanics are "incompetent" for not learning plumbing.

Biowizard nails it. You buy a device to do ONE TASK with excellence. SLRs aren't smartphones, nor should they be. Having the ABILITY to do video is one thing, catering to those videographers who, frankly, are irrelevant, THAT'S a problem.

Comment edited 3 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
unknown member
By (unknown member) (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm not so sure anyone can say that the drive for video features hasn't hurt DSLR still photography capability in cameras. I certainly think it has. Anyone who believes video has no part in the design and can be ignored without consequence is just wrong. I have -0 (less than zero) interest in video. Am I not skilled at shooting video? Bet your azzo I'm not because I don't do it, have never done it, and never will do it. I'm not even that skilled at still photography, but it is what I like to do, and I enjoy the equipment. It would be nice if they didn't waste controls real estate and menus on video, but realistically the D700 will be the last still photography DSLR, I believe. That's too bad.

0 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

Video seldom uses more than one notch on a mode dial or a special video button. The video portions of the screen menu don't usually overlap at all, unless a screwy (Sony?) menu somewhare makes everything convoluted.

Proud proclamation of indifference to video is not a good posture for job applicants. Does restaurant X want a chef who insists on a menu fixe forever?

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

So if your not interested in video then don't do it. Nobody is forcing you to. But for the love of god please stop talking about it. Because when you try to intelligently discuss video, like equating it to YouTube clips, and calling videographers who are doing amazingly creative work like feature films and music videos work with DSLRs "irrelevant", you sound moronic.

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

Maybe it only takes up 1 button, but in the case of something like the D5100, an excellent model that nonetheless could use a couple of "hard buttons," the red dot video button could instead be re-mappable to something like ISO. It's not, so it's in the way.

If you like videos, fine, BUY A VIDEO CAMERA. If toting 2 machines is enough to stop you, then tough--maybe you're not as serious about your craft as you pretend to be. What did videographers do up until now anyway? If cost is a barrier, there's the GH2.

Me--I like still imaging, and I most assuredly do not want your YouTube feature cluttering up my still imaging camera. SLRs have always been about still imaging the entire time they've existed, you start cross-contaminating the conflicting needs of each camp you mess it up. Even if you only mess it up 1 billionth of 1 percent, that's 1 billionth of 1 percent too much. I don't go around demanding video cameras handle my still imaging because I'm too lazy to tote 1 for each role.

Comment edited 4 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
petrocan
By petrocan (Feb 23, 2012)

andy sheppard:
"It's great to see Nikon finally challenging Canon's dominance in the HD video arena but for me video is not a priority. On the rare occasions that I need to capture video I'll do it with my phone."

Hehe, I always wanted video from my camera, I have 2 who can do it, but I never do video.... only on the beginnig when I want to test it.

Weird isn't it?

maybe video is a art that demand more knowledge, I never had nice video.

Comment edited 41 seconds after posting
1 upvote
Infared
By Infared (Feb 23, 2012)

LOL! I own a 5DMark II. A G3 and GX1. Many lenses for both. Unlike you...as soon as the camera came out of the box I disabled the video buttons. They never shot a frame. I had pictures to take...no time for another art form. 2 COMPLETELY different disciplines in my world (if you want to be proficient with either one, that is). But this is not the case in the mainstream...its all "media". Push the button, post on web...you are an artist. Whatever. LOL!

0 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm an amateur that is doing more and more video, especially the relevant family moments. But I will get the D800 and will learn more about it, maybe at some point I'll go into a more creative mode with video, as I do in stills.

Comment edited 30 seconds after posting
0 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (Feb 23, 2012)

Once again...I think Canon has a better finger on the market.

2 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (Feb 23, 2012)

oh..I don't necessarily think that Canon cameras are "better" than Nikon.....I just think that they will sell better.

0 upvotes
Peter K Burian
By Peter K Burian (Feb 23, 2012)

Well maybe, but a 36.3 megapixel DSLR will sell like hotcakes especially at $3000 in the US or $3200 in Canada.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

With the now confirmed 22 mp Canon 5D Mk III at $3,500 it sounds like the only finger they have on the market is the middle finder.

5 upvotes
Infared
By Infared (Feb 23, 2012)

LOL...The Canon hasn't been released yet.(BTW....I have a 5D Mark II...I have no need for more pixels...it is getting silly. No filter in front of the sensor ....YES...but no more pixels)

Comment edited 14 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

I think Canon will keep the hold on video, if the 5D+ has a 3x3 round binning for video. It'll likely include 1080 60p. Let's see about the HDMI output, that is relevant, and may tip the balance in Nikon's favor with PJs and others.

Now, the D4 is looking the better camera, with better high ISO, stable and better AF, and excellent features, time will tell.

D800, well, it's an interesting product, will sell a lot, but Nikon may still need to update the D700 with the D4's sensor later in the year, there's a large market for that.

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

Nikon will not "update the D700 with the D4 sensor". That would cannibalize their professional DSLR line, where people would buy the cheaper camera with the D4 sensor instead of the D4.

The D800 has as good, or better high ISO performance than the D700 at 3 times the resolution, and way better dynamic range.

1 upvote
ThePhilips
By ThePhilips (Feb 23, 2012)

Andy Sheppard:
> I don't even shoot in Raw mode.

Gotta bookmark that man.

2 upvotes
88SAL
By 88SAL (Feb 23, 2012)

So hardcore, living on the edge of photography.

2 upvotes
Nikonworks
By Nikonworks (Feb 23, 2012)

The selection of these four pros says nothing about the D800's resolution and how it relates to their work.

DPReview should have included a landscape photog.

This low light, high ISO crowd has no feedback on studio or landscape photography.

Seems DPReview crafts its articles to match the interests of its readers rather than the subject at hand, the D800.

Just my opinion, but I am right.

Comment edited 1 minute after posting
12 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Feb 23, 2012)

Possibly because they hear so much yowling from the public about high ISO and video they neglect to think of other applications. The pattern I have seen for the last couple of years is:

1. Video (ignore the form factor, I want Red quality for $800 you fools).
2. High ISO. (I want noise -free ISO 25,600 Lower res is preferred you fools).
3. More resolution ( I want 40MP plus we know you can do it you fools)
4. Weather sealing (Never mind that I never go out in inclement weather)
5. Give me fast primes ( I know you can make a 50 f0.95 pancake you fools)

6. Low price. ( I want all this in a camera that sells for $500 because I know your profit is still $450 you fools).

But yeah I would have liked to hear from Landscape and studio photographers.

2 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

Nikonworks: ""DPReview should have included a landscape photog."

Is that a profitable field? What are trees, mountains, and clouds paying their photographers these days? Isn't it the people or beast shots (often in low light) that make it to the cover of nature publications?

1 upvote
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

In case some of you haven't noticed, many of us doing this could care diddly about profits. Zilch. It's love of the medium, photography, that appeals to us. If others don't like our work, frankly, we could give a flying flip. My landscapes are pretty to me & my peers, if no one wants to buy them, I could care less. I'm not eating pork & beans, we're not "thumbing" it to the stores or work, & I can still afford a D5000, 18-105VR and 50mm G just as I am.

Those of you who want to sell out to YouTube and vimeo aspirations, go ahead--I'm not trying to stop you. But stop cluttering up the interface with red-dots I didn't ask for on MY CAMERA just because there's a segment out there that demands photographers be something that they're not and call those of us "luddites" who, gee, don't want to have our arm twisted into moonlighting as YouTubers and vimeo-ers when that's just not what we are. I don't criticize people who like to paint as "unimaginative" if that's all they want to do.

1 upvote
Ilkka Nissilä
By Ilkka Nissilä (Feb 24, 2012)

The topic of the article was about professional photographers. If you do not care about profit then this article obviously isn't meant for you.

0 upvotes
Greg Gebhardt
By Greg Gebhardt (Feb 23, 2012)

The D4 and D800 offer Nikon's customers choice. Heck the D700 is still a great camera and I hope that Nikon does not stop making it.

So many memebrs in these forums seem THREATENED over these new cameras.

8 upvotes
Photomonkey
By Photomonkey (Feb 23, 2012)

Not threatened, just the nature of the boards to encourage the expression of opinion.

0 upvotes
Paul Guba
By Paul Guba (Feb 23, 2012)

All good. Not much info in the article you don't know. Just opinions we all have them. Everyone knew Dan is shooting with Canon. It seems video is the deciding factor but I don't shoot video so no big deal.

0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (Feb 23, 2012)

IMO, But wait a minute, I am not a troll. Okay, the fact is, when will Nikon stop making too big bulky DSLR? Canon had been making smaller size of DSLR and made it lighter since. Nikon hasn't? Come on! You gotta need to listen to people about the comfort of handling, the weight, the size of camera. My dad Canon 5D Mark II body size is smaller than that Nikon and weighed lighter, very comfortable to carry around but yet I see that camera in that picture looks so big and bulky. Hrmm? I am not impressed with the Nikon design. Plus, I don't need too much Megapixel either. Nobody wants it. I want to see room of improvement is the video with much better rolling shutter speed, less aggressive noise reduction in JPEG, reliable Autofocus, reliable white balance, more function in it like built in HDR, etc whatever they have. /End of rant from me. Nathan.

0 upvotes
Fearless_Photog
By Fearless_Photog (Feb 23, 2012)

I don't know what planet you're living on, but Nikon and Canon pro and prosumer bodies have always been roughly the same size. In fact the grips on the D2 and D3 bodies have always made them seem smaller in the hand than the Canon 1 series bodies to me. The D700 and 5D Mark II are about the same size other than the D700's bigger prism, but it also has a much more complex AF module in there. Anyway, I don't know what makes you think smaller bodies are what everyone wants. When I have a 300mm prime on the body I want something solid to hold on to and balance the weight. I've used my 300 on a D90 in addition to on my pro bodies, and it feels much worse. If small is what you want there are already plenty of small consumer bodies and kit lenses on the market for you, or a mirrorless system if you want to go even smaller. You don't seem like the target market of the D4 or D800.

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 58 seconds after posting
8 upvotes
sandy b
By sandy b (Feb 23, 2012)

Nat, do us all a favor, leave your daddy's camera alone. The d800 is basically same size as the 5D2, it has better video, better resolution and better ISO, better focusing. And yes, you are a troll.

5 upvotes
cruser2469
By cruser2469 (Feb 23, 2012)

time to hit the gym big boy! my 2yr old picks up my D3s with no problem! Nathan, are you the guy from the burger commercial with the baby hands?

Comment edited 2 minutes after posting
1 upvote
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

The D800 is lighter and smaller than the D700, only 60g more than the D300s and 120g more than the D7000 (which are APS-C). And it has 100% VF, which the D700 doesn't. I think you don't know much about this level of cameras, you are talking about Rebels.

0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (Feb 23, 2012)

Maybe I may have overestimate the size on website when I looked at that picture of camera on top of this page. But again, I don't like the design. Most people I have read here seems interesting to me that not many people are interesting in more pixel than Canon 5D Mark II for example. Only few wants more pixel but they gotta have to pay more. I really wish Canon should improve the rolling shutter in video, less aggressive noise reduction in JPEG and much more reliable AF and white balance. And it does need much more function than that. I would love to see them add HDR to incamera program and so much more. It would be fantastic. Canon is going backward a little too much. Small sensor of Canon is 1.6 factor while Nikon is 1.5 factor. It looks like Canon is not willing to increase small sensor size by a notch. Thats their decision I reckon. But still I love the Canon brand and never give up. If anyone didn't like my message above. I apologised and disregard that previous message.

0 upvotes
KTSFotos
By KTSFotos (Feb 23, 2012)

If some people who comment here and complain about the cameras and the website, taking pictures at the same level of their complaints, would certainly be one of the best photographers in the world, but thankfully the claims does not promote anyone. The camera is there to be bought, and not to be accept. To me the D800 is perfect.

4 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (Feb 23, 2012)

For me, I never will be the best photography in the world, very much doubt. I never believe to be perfect. No one perfect. If I was a millionaire I would have that camera of D800E. I can expect that price tag gonna be high. Probably good for pro photography who works in company for wedding shots in particular, event photos, product photos for signage and poster, etc. For me I am not into those. I am remain in hobby of photography, haven't decide to go further yet. Future is a long way to go.

1 upvote
MP Burke
By MP Burke (Feb 23, 2012)

I have noticed that two well known landscape photographers, Joe Cornish and Jack Dykinga are already using Nikon. It would be interesting to know what landscape photographers think of the D800 models and whether they prefer to work with or without AA filtering.

4 upvotes
rhlpetrus
By rhlpetrus (Feb 23, 2012)

Agree, there are many well-known landscape/nature photogs to hear from, as well as wedding pros.

1 upvote
sarkozy
By sarkozy (Feb 23, 2012)

The joke is that Dan has not noticed that the GH2 with Hack of Vitaliy Kiselev for film / video much better than the five to six times more expensive models from Nikon and Canon. Good day, Dan Chung

2 upvotes
gabeb1946
By gabeb1946 (Feb 23, 2012)

Totally changing conversation - could someone please interpret this (sarkozy's comment) for me?

1 upvote
Winston Loo
By Winston Loo (Feb 23, 2012)

the Panasonic GH2 when hacked, can produce some of the best DSLR video. Check out EOSHD.com.

0 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

"Hacked" being the operative word. GH2 is a great camera, but many, Dan Chung included, prefer better control of DOF that a FF sensor provides vs m43, the more robust professional build, the much superior low-light performance, and significantly better glass available for EF mount.

0 upvotes
duartix
By duartix (Feb 23, 2012)

...and don't forget to add, the lower Video Quality, lower bitrate and mushier video that you get from these FF models.

0 upvotes
Taikonaut
By Taikonaut (Feb 23, 2012)

Dan Chung does not sound too optimistic that Nikon D4 and D800 video is on par with the 1DX and he is right to be cautious. He has played with both cameras. Despite uncompressed HDMI video out Nikon video downsampling is prone to severe aliasing and the 24mbs bitrate is considered rather low by today's standard which delivers less detail video and only a slight step up from the 3.5 years old 5DMkII mostly improvement made towards jello effect. The 1DX has about 48mbs bitrate. The 5DMkIII 22mp allows video downsampling to 1080p perfectly without aliasing and if the bitrate is as high as the 1DX it would easily produce superior video than either D4 or D800 with or without uncompressed HDMI out.

4 upvotes
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

The 5D MK III is not even out yet, and it remains to be seen if it will produce superior video to the D4 or D800 uncompressed HDMI out video. The almost non-existant jello effect seen in the D800 sample video is reason alone that many videographers will choose the D800 for certain projects. And you act as if the 5D Mk II is completely without issues like almost unbearable moire and insanely bad jello effect and the rather low resolution relative to the GH2 due to poor line skipping down sampling algorithm.

Comment edited 44 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
Taikonaut
By Taikonaut (Feb 23, 2012)

Yet you act as though I had said the 5DMkII is without issue. Read what I have said not try and imagine. Moire is just as bad on the D800 as it is on the 5DMKII. The only major improvement the D800 has over the 3.5 years old Canon sensor is the handling of jello due to the faster sensor and if you read my original post that is what I had said. Uncompress HDMI means very little if original video quality are already compromised.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm not sure your understanding what uncompressed (8-bit, 4:2:2) is.

You said the D800 original video was "compromised", but looking at Joy Ride video (and reading the thousands of comments that support my view) it's clear that the output of the D800 looks at least as sharp or sharper as the 5D MK II but as much aliasing, moire and rolling shutter. Low-light is also similar or better. A video like Joy Ride with fast action, i.e. following a motorbike, may not even be possible on the 5D Mk II due to it's terrible jello effect.

1 upvote
raj_246
By raj_246 (Feb 23, 2012)

Have a handy cam rather than carrying a block of rubber coated on magnesium alloy if u want to shoot videos. Sad to see that the so called photographers have turned to Video graphers!

2 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

I couldn't agree with you more. Count me as a "luddite" who founds all of this vimeo-moonlighting ridiculous. I don't blame the photographers as much as I do the ad agencies DEMANDING it of them. The photographers are just trying to stay employed I guess. Me: I don't demand my car mechanic fix the roof of my house, or my plumber do my interior-decorating. I also don't do photography for a living, so I get to give a big long middle-finger to any would-be client demanding I mutate into a videographer when that is NOT WHAT I AM.

It is also refreshing to see the photographers on page 2 continue to be successful who stating they have no interest in video. Good for them, I say. If they're "luddites," then considering their success & abilities, who ISN'T one?

Comment edited 2 times, last edit 2 minutes after posting
0 upvotes
Taikonaut
By Taikonaut (Feb 23, 2012)

Looks like the D800/800E is what most 5DMkII owners expect the 5DMkIII to be and the 5DMkIII is what most D700 owners expect the D800/800E to be. Canon and Nikon just traded place with each other.

1 upvote
d3xmeister
By d3xmeister (Feb 23, 2012)

Sa basically, video is the best thing ever, for photographers. Has the world gone crazy ? I mean I have no problem with video, but I see little common points to photography. It's like saying : ,,What I like about my new car is the new flying function,, While great, it has nothing to do with cars.

8 upvotes
Westkip
By Westkip (Feb 23, 2012)

Totally correct and yet I got shot down in flames for making just this suggesion on a sister forum by a load of people who swallow whatever the Japanese factories churn out as the one true way.
What wouldn't I give for a Canon, (tied by lenses), stripped out of everything that doesn't make for good still photography.

Comment edited 36 seconds after posting
5 upvotes
Cy Cheze
By Cy Cheze (Feb 23, 2012)

So, if your car could fly, and for no extra cost, you'd still prefer to crawl through ground traffic?

0 upvotes
larrytusaz
By larrytusaz (Feb 23, 2012)

Yes that is correct (d3xmeister & Westkip). What other people do with their SLRs is not my concern so much, except that when ad agencies & clients etc DEMAND it & photographers go along with it, the tools become corrupted by it. The otherwise excellent D5100 I'm about to upgrade to is a good example--the red-dot button for videos. You can't re-map it to (say) ISO or drive-button as you can the Fn button. It's in prime real estate area right by the shutter release. I only do stills, so it thus gets in my way. If it comes down to pleasing videographers or photographers with an SLR, the photographers should win everytime. If it absolutely 100% doesn't get in the way (I can re-map the movie button on my Olympus E-PL1) then I don't worry about it so much.

0 upvotes
MashingTheGas
By MashingTheGas (Feb 23, 2012)

"....., but a couple of months ago I finally got rid of my Nikon bodies, mainly because I just wasn’t really shooting on them. I kept all my Nikon glass though,....."

Really? What can we learn about the D4 and D800 in a review from a guy who talks about how he loves to shoot Nikon glass on his Canons?

Really?.......Thanks for nuthin'.......

1 upvote
Westkip
By Westkip (Feb 23, 2012)

Did he actually say that he intended shooting Nikon glass on his Canon? I'll re-read it but I rather got the impression he was keeping the Nikon glass perhaps in case he backslid. Do bear in mind that a pro photog has to take a more detached attitude than the usual fanboys; he just wants the best for the job at any particular time and may revert to the next Nikon without having to re-purchase glass.

6 upvotes
MashingTheGas
By MashingTheGas (Feb 23, 2012)

I believe he did wax fondly about shooting w/Canon & Nikon glass. I don't have a problem with that at all. Understand what he's saying. I just thought from reading the title of the article that we'd actually get some feedback on the two featured cameras from professionals who actually used them.

Quote from Mr. Chung: "That's why I think the new Nikons look really interesting. I will definitely be looking at the D4 and D800 in more detail because I can’t afford not to."

Again - when I read a header "Nikon D4 & D800: What do the Professionals Think?", I generally expect to hear what they think of the new cameras, not that they love Nikon glass and will "definitely be looking at them". Just kind of a head-scratcher.......

0 upvotes
dmcd
By dmcd (Feb 23, 2012)

'I honestly can't wait to use the D4 in anger at the London olympics...'

What's this supposed to mean?!?!?

3 upvotes
AshMills
By AshMills (Feb 23, 2012)

To use in anger- means to use on a real job, not just to play with.

1 upvote
Khizer
By Khizer (Feb 23, 2012)

Seems the man doesn't love his job?

0 upvotes
Deeso
By Deeso (Feb 23, 2012)

Khizer "Work and play are words used to describe the same thing under differing conditions" :P

0 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (Feb 23, 2012)

Unbelievable how belligerent and derogative some of the remarks below are. Come on people. Go out and shoot photos. I don't see these pro's moaning about the cameras. They just take limitations in stride and work within the boundaries of possibility.

5 upvotes
muratime
By muratime (Feb 23, 2012)

as a D700 user,
considering D800's insane MP count, or D4's video skills.. we need to preview a new Macbook Pro's as well ;)

so we shall not consider non of above without new PC investment..

so D800 comes for attractive

if you are only for Photography, then go for D4, even if it is double price you don't need to invest for a new computer... you will solely pay for the camera..
because D800 sure comes with new PC cost..

1 upvote
steveh0607
By steveh0607 (Feb 23, 2012)

And the D800 flies will be far to large for Capture NX2 unless Nikon gets serious about its software.

0 upvotes
naththo
By naththo (Feb 23, 2012)

Muratime, sorry I disagree with you. I am intermediate in PC Computing. You only need at least dual core or better (Steer clear of cheap rubbish Celeron or Sempron), 4gb or better, 1gb PCI-E video card or better, good quality LCD monitor more than 1600 pixel across, high speed hard drive or better like SSD. Even with video card, if you have Nvidia with CUDA support it will run very good in photoshop CS5 with Cuda supported. Then its perfect. For HD video intensive editing. I would suggest Intel I7 processor or AMD x6 or x8 core series with 8gb ram or better, maybe go for dual video PCI-E video card or a single 2gb video card PCI-E, high speed hard drive or better, 1920 x 1080 monitor requires with good refresh rate, etc. But for just still photos and just watch HD movie rather than edit, you DON'T need overpower computer for that.

0 upvotes
Fearless_Photog
By Fearless_Photog (Feb 23, 2012)

I'm with naththo. I keep seeing the "my computer won't be able to handle these files" argument, and it's weird to me. If you're a professional photographer, or even a serious hobbyist, why would you invest thousands in a camera body and lenses, and not invest enough in a proper PC to process the files? The camera, PC, and Printer are all important tools in creating the finished product, they should all be up to par. Buying a D800 and trying to edit the files on a low end laptop is like buying a D800 when your printer is only capable printing 4x6". I bought a Core i7 system 3 years ago, I considered it a long term investment and spent about $1800, less than a third of the cost D4. I've already played around with D800 files in NX2 and there is no issue, it can fly through them. These days you can get an equivalent system for about half that price, and if you're serious about all aspects of your photography it's a no brainer.

1 upvote
SeeRoy
By SeeRoy (Feb 23, 2012)

I assumed, seeing the title of this piece, that this would be a report of hands-on experience. But - as far as I bothered to read it - it appears to be a report by pros who have read the reviews and specs.
Misrepresentation, whether useful or not.
Roy

0 upvotes
cesaregal
By cesaregal (Feb 23, 2012)

Well done, DPReview!
Interesting points of view!
Interesting Andy Sheppard' interview: D700, Jpeg and.. no pp, I hope.

1 upvote
Barbu
By Barbu (Feb 23, 2012)

Thumbs up if you think these opinions are (at least) 95% useless. Yes, the new cameras are doing better video. And yes, 95% of the buyers are giving exactly 1 (one) cr*p about that.
From my point of view, it's more important (than video) even the tiny detail about AutoISO and focal length, taken into account for exposure calculation.

6 upvotes
Lea5
By Lea5 (Feb 23, 2012)

If it's no noisechart, no pixelpeeping at 400%, it's "useless" right? Some gearheads make me laugh...

12 upvotes
wetsleet
By wetsleet (Feb 23, 2012)

Interesting to see that a Pro takes jpegs, is happy to save money by not following the herd into buying what the received wisdom tells you to buy in order to be admitted as a Pro, and uses his phone if he needs to capture video. Nice to know that you can just be judged by your results instead.

9 upvotes
M1963
By M1963 (Feb 23, 2012)

Interestingly, once I commented that pros tend to shoot jpegs, because in some shooting circumstances there's no time to wait for the data to write down to the memory card. I got this impression after talking to a photojournalist and a wedding photographer, and I got some more confirmation browsing the web. You know what? My comment was ridiculed. However, I still can't imagine a photofournalist taking raw images in a war scenario...

1 upvote
steveh0607
By steveh0607 (Feb 23, 2012)

I used to shoot raw all the time, having bought into the hype. I've since switched to jpg. If you know your camera and set it up correctly and take well composed pictures of something interesting the camera will give you the results you need with only some minor tweaking post capture.

4 upvotes
D Gnatat
By D Gnatat (Feb 23, 2012)

cannot within reach

0 upvotes
alfaflash
By alfaflash (Feb 23, 2012)

Totally useless article. Who cares what a bunch of pros think of a camera they have not used? It's just self serviing publicity for four working pros. We need hands,-on real world feedback.

10 upvotes
Barney Britton
By Barney Britton (Feb 23, 2012)

So the perspective of working pros is of literally no value to you? You know less after reading this than you did before - we actually sucked knowledge and understanding out of your head with this article?

Comment edited 7 minutes after posting
28 upvotes
fz750
By fz750 (Feb 23, 2012)

I disagree, it's interesting to hear what features they really value even though it might not relate to my specific interest.

Clearly what they value is significantly influencing camera design and features.

These are only 4 professionals and don't represent the views of all, but as a kind of blog article I think it's absolutely fine and why not, you don't have to read it..

To be honest I think DP should disable comments on stories and articles, the range of comments we have seen lately such as the World Press Photo 2012 winners have been beyond embarassing and add no value whatsoever to the article itself or the website and surely that's the whole point?

Comment edited 13 minutes after posting
6 upvotes
match14
By match14 (Feb 23, 2012)

How about an article on what pros think of the Canon EOS 1D-X?

Comment edited 23 seconds after posting
4 upvotes
Stu 5
By Stu 5 (Feb 23, 2012)

Well Said Barney.

3 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 23, 2012)

He's half right, you know. Of course it's interesting to hear how this pro or that pro thinks a new product might work for them. But since they will be among the first to get the cameras, I'd be more interested in what they think of actually using the camera and examining the results.

0 upvotes
josefmaria
By josefmaria (Feb 23, 2012)

the d800 will be a very good camera, but I won't buy it - why? I was waiting for a successor of the d700 with better iso performance, more resolution (18 to max. 25 mpx), better af, better measuremant and hopefully a little bit lighter in weight. last thing is one of the reasons why I don't buy a d4. I want to carry the camera all the time with me, but I am to old to need a camera to show off and get a stiff neck, I already made my way. and I also don't want to handle terrabytes of data with shootings were you shot a lot, but no necessity of 36 mpx. If I need 36 mpx or more (mostly in the studio), I use my medium format camera with the leaf back and no 36 x 24 chip will be that good. so I will keep my canon 5d mark II if I need more than 12mpx. the 5d mark II has a perfect size of resolution, it's light and has good lenses (as far as you don't need wide-angle lenses). that's what I expected, or better, wished, to get from a d700 successor to stay with my preferred camera.

9 upvotes
Ethom
By Ethom (Feb 23, 2012)

That’s right this is not a D700 successor, this is a D4X in a D700 body. Can’t us it need low light performance as ice hockey shooter, can’t afford D4 so stay with D700!

0 upvotes
D1N0
By D1N0 (Feb 23, 2012)

I wouldn't be so sure the d800 will suck at high iso. http://nikonrumors.com/2012/02/22/nikon-d800-vs-nikon-d700-high-iso-comparison.aspx/

1 upvote
ashwins
By ashwins (Feb 23, 2012)

Yes, D800 is not a D700 successor. If any, it's a D3X successor. I wish the real D700 successor is soon to come.

1 upvote
marike6
By marike6 (Feb 23, 2012)

So from your post we learned the the 5D Mk II is light and that Canon doesn't offer any wides. Really?

0 upvotes
AbrasiveReducer
By AbrasiveReducer (Feb 23, 2012)

This person is on to something (except perhaps better ISO performance from the D700). As someone who uses a 5DII for everything except wide and a D700 for the 14-24 and 16-35VR (very handy) all I wanted was a 21mp D700. Heck, I'd settle for a 5DII with proper bracketing capability.

0 upvotes
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